Archer Killed Modern Armor!!!?!?!

[zapperio]

Ever hear of illegal arms dealing? Is that real world enough for you? The archers got their hands on some rpgs curtesy of of a greedy AI. Or possibly, some of your own arms manufacturers had a hand in it. Happens every day.

[Kc7mxo]

Originally posted by zapperio
Ever hear of illegal arms dealing? Is that real world enough for you? The archers got their hands on some rpgs curtesy of of a greedy AI. Or possibly, some of your own arms manufacturers had a hand in it. Happens every day.

then they're not ARCHERS anymore, are they?

I think that what someone else said is right, a major portion of the problem is the massive defense boost cities give just for being cities, if you don't bombard them.

Historically, if your city didn't have walls. . . your city was gunna get thrashed by the enemy army. I think its kind of silly that a large town should just get some great bonus for being big. If you're fighting street to street, your city is going to be devestated.

[Andrew1999]

One factoid that may be categorized as "romantic explanations" is that there is no such thing as an armored unit. An armored Corps or Army (which is the scale we're at) is only about 1/3-1/2 tanks, with the rest being some kind of infantry and the support units. If your longbowmen can take out the fuel trucks, ammo trucks, and supporting infantry than the tanks themselves aren't worth much.

Can someone figure out the actual odds? Assuming 50% culture defense bonus, 50% fortification bonus, and 1 promotion each (since I doubt the OP has access to the real modifiers anymore.)

I do think the upgrade system neds some help. We could do an across-the-board 50% price cut. A more radical idea would be to up the unit support costs by 1gp/unit/turn and then have them automagically upgraded when it becomes available.

[Capt Dizle]

Cavalry use changed not in WWII or WWI, but by the American Civil War. Artillery had nothing to do with it, it was the advent of the rifled musket. This gave range and accuracy to the infantry and made charges too costly. So, calvary fought dismounted. Charges were rare, except mobile actions against enemy cavalry.

Scouting, raiding, and protecting flanks, trains, and hindering troop movements were the uses of cavarly after this time, important, but gone were the days of glorious. thundering, field sweeping war ending charges. Keep in mind that most of the flanking movements from this era were made by infantry.

The advantage of the T-34 was it was more manuverable in winter weather. As the intial German offensive bogged down, the T-34 became the hunter. But it was not the best tank.

From the begining to the end the Wehrmact was superior to Allied forces in perfomance. It was a numbers game.

[MrFun]

You know, Kuci may come up with a new avatar based on what was described in the OP.

[Fidel]

zinegata: we are clearly off topic on this one, so we can continue this on OT, discussing how hard it is to withdraw tank from a battle etc. and no, english is not my first language.

on topic: civ never represented reality. after all, anyone ever heard of american phalanxes, german war chariots etc? of course, it should, to a certain degree, resemble processes and appearances of our world, and certainly should reflect military advancement. at the minimum, people can take consolance in the fact that it is now longbowen, not spearmen, defeating the tank.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by MrFun
You know, Kuci may come up with a new avatar based on what was described in the OP.

To be honest, I haven't figured out what his current one is supposed to be. Waffles?

[Arrian]

Did he get rid of his "Spearman defeats Tank" avatar? Best. Avatar. Ever.

-Arrian

[Fidel]

you mean this one?

[inca911]

The unit names are only to associate something with the reality of "100 strength unit" and "1 strength unit". Quit picturing imaginary longbowmen and imaginary tanks and start thinking in terms of the real mathematical models. In the realm of probability, even a 1 strength unit can defeat a 100 strength unit.

But then again, some people seem to have a need to believe this is all real and more than just a game.

[Shadowlord]

Originally posted by Sava
there is no way in gods green earth that a navy SEAL is going to ever lose to crossbowman...

never ever ever ever ever ever...

sorry, but balance needs to take a back seat to common sense...

Obviously your SEALs are poorly trained and assaulting crack ninja crossbowmen. These guys can take down your SEALs with a single headshot without the SEALs even seeing their attackers.

[gdijedi7]

I think they should bring back hit points and firepower from civ 2. It didn't totally solve the problem, but it did help.
Also, Solver is right. The reality of what is portrayed would be archers hiding in buildings and maybe dropping onto tanks, forcing the hatches open, or maybe placing their flag on the tank and getting the enemy to shoot it, like the Poles did against the Nazi's

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by LaRusso
you mean this one?

[JakeCourtney]

That Nazy Seal team is a small group verses a large number of crossbowmen So I see how it is possible.

[RGBVideo]

Let's say I'm going to attack you with 10 men. You have 4 cities, and 20 men. You outnumber me 2:1. But you want to defend all your cities, so you put 5 men in each. So although you outnumber me in general, when I attack you, I will outnumber you 2:1 at whatever city I attack.

What this means is that the game is set up to allow you to take a city or two without too much difficulty, but not be able to simply steamroll over an Empire.

This really, really doesn't work in multiplayer, where defenders use their road networks to transport their armies to wherever the attackers are.

Also, Solver is right. The reality of what is portrayed would be archers hiding in buildings and maybe dropping onto tanks, forcing the hatches open, or maybe placing their flag on the tank and getting the enemy to shoot it, like the Poles did against the Nazi's

I just love it how you carefully read other people's posts in the thread before replying with a "ditto" message. How would you destroy a modern battle-ready tank, say T72, with a bow, arrows and your bare arms? Heck, let's say it can't even move or shoot in a battlefield situation -- you're completely free to attack it from all directions.

No need to be disrespectful..

Yeah, sorry. I was pretty pissed back then.

If you are playing against the AI, take 5 artillery units per every city. Thats it. Soften it up then attack with 2-1 numbers. The need for 2-1 numbers is completely reasonable considering they are defending their home turf.

I know this works, because it's the way I've waged wars so far. The problem is that it doesn't make any sense to wage war, ever. Concentrate on your research and try to max out your GrP production, steamroll for a spaceship or UN victory.