Helicopter (Gunship) Oddities

[Bill3000]

If all gunpowder units have first strike, is it really a first strike?

[Kuciwalker]

If a Warrior has Woodsman and there are no Forests, does it get a bonus?

[Akaoz]

Originally posted by Bill3000
If all gunpowder units have first strike, is it really a first strike?

Against things like swordman, macemen, knights and longbowmen, yes. *smartass*

Seriously, if a Longbowman and a Machinegun get First Strike against units, so should infantry and other modern units.

It's hard to say waht's better at "Firs Striking" the Long Bow or a Muskett, but a rifle will out range and out damage the long bow any time. IMHO that is.

[ElConejo]

Originally posted by Akaoz

.... but a rifle will out range and out damage the long bow any time. IMHO that is.

Is this true in Civ tho?

I mean, we've all heard the horror stories... STUPID SPEARMAN!

[Falconius]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
If a Warrior has Woodsman and there are no Forests, does it get a bonus?

Best laugh I had all week!

[Kc7mxo]

You know the only reason we haven't had the battleship vs phalanx arguments of civ 1 is because naval units can't attack ground units. . . right?

[ElConejo]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo
You know the only reason we haven't had the battleship vs phalanx arguments of civ 1 is because naval units can't attack ground units. . . right?

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
If a Warrior has Woodsman and there are no Forests, does it get a bonus?

[meel]

Originally posted by MattPilot
May i suggest a higher difficult level if you are fighting gunships vs knights?


Anyway, I think gunships shouldn't have the pillage option. I'ts not like they are landing, jumpin out, and collecting their loot.

Also, gunships are very good vs armored units. +100%. Since armor doesn't get defensive bonus, that puts gunships vs armor equal.

Now add a +25 against armor promotion and see who has the upper hand. Perfect to counter those Modern Armor stack attacks people where suggesting.

---------------------------------------------

I had it happen on a Noble/Epic game, I saw this happen when the Mongols attacked me late in the game for some reason. Earlier in the game I'd knocked them down to 1 or 2 cities, so they were way behind everyone, but their spirit was undaunted obviously!

Pillaging is maybe ok, but 4 times per round is nuts. You can totally clear out a place really quickly with a few choppers. Not sure why helicopters would be able to pillage/destroy more improvements than airplanes or ground units anyway, I doubt they carry alot more payload than a bomber.

Like I said, they own WW2 armor, but against modern armor they are what - 32 vs 40 or so? Even with a 25% bonus they'd come out dead even, so guess again on who has the upper hand! There should be an Apache type upgrade for modern choppers, as well as transport choppers, and they should be able to spot subs imo.

[Harovan]

It would not be right to give gunships the ability to move over mountains and water tiles - no matter if lake or ocean. It would create a situation of them attacking units in adjacent tiles, while being invulnerable, because other units can not enter this terrain and hence, not attack it either.

The only thing I could think of is to give them a "can attack cross river without penalty" ability.

[Akaoz]

Gunship vs. Armor =

20 + (20 x 100%) = 40

So it's an even match before promotions for either side.

[Akaoz]

Problem is though. When you are faced with a stack of Modern Armor and Mech Inf, it's impossible to get the unit type bonuses for the attacker...

If you attack with a Gunship, the Mech Inf will defend. If you attack with Modern Armor, the enemy Armor will defend...

Combined Arms favors the defender, and there is little the attacker can do about it.

[MattPilot]

Originally posted by Akaoz

Combined Arms favors the defender, and there is little the attacker can do about it.

That is unfortunately true.

Perhaps we need a special unit ability (via promotion or given to certain units) that ignore best defender and go vs best odds - but only when attacking, of course.

The Marine (ala special forces) & the gunship (can fly) 'ought to receive such a bonus. Axemen could be given this bonus in the more ancient age, and i'm sure there is a unit inbetween somewhere for the semi-modern age.

[Gunter]

Re: Helicopter (Gunship) Oddities

Originally posted by Falconius
Finally made it to the modern era (!) and noticed some odd goings-on with the gunships (aka helicopters).

1. When attacking across a river, they get the same river crossing penalty as ground units. Why? They're not wading through water, they're flying!

2. They can't move across water spaces, not even lakes that are one tile in size. Again, why?

3. They can't fly over mountains. Huh?

Hope someone with ability mods this soon, because it's downright silly. Copters could do these things back in Civ 2, for crying out loud.

If these bugs are confirmed the situation is worst then I could ever imagined

Gunter

[Dis]

those aren't bugs, but design features. Seriously. That is how they designed choppers. Gunships should be more powerful, since they represent apache type helicopters I'm assuming.