Helicopter (Gunship) Oddities

[Falconius]

Finally made it to the modern era (!) and noticed some odd goings-on with the gunships (aka helicopters).

1. When attacking across a river, they get the same river crossing penalty as ground units. Why? They're not wading through water, they're flying!

2. They can't move across water spaces, not even lakes that are one tile in size. Again, why?

3. They can't fly over mountains. Huh?

Hope someone with ability mods this soon, because it's downright silly. Copters could do these things back in Civ 2, for crying out loud.

[Sarxis]

The river thing I can understand, but the other two I think have to do with the gunships being more akin to ground units than air units.

In fact, helicopters do have a hard time flying in mountainous terrain due to the altitude and temperatures.

[ElConejo]

Yea that sounds pretty stupid to me too, I read that in the manual and couldnt help but think: what? O.K. no sea squares, I'll give them that, but no mountains or little tiny lakes now? I dont know...

This could be off topic but if I may I present a question that has been bugging me (esp since I cant play Civ4 myself I hope you can tell me) Did the transport helicopters return? I havent seen anything about them but I was just wondering if they had returned and if so made any better...

[Kuciwalker]

Re: Helicopter (Gunship) Oddities

Originally posted by Falconius
Hope someone with ability mods this soon, because it's downright silly. Copters could do these things back in Civ 2, for crying out loud.

Yeah, what is it with these new choppers? Shouldn't they improve over time?

[Mace]

Originally posted by ElConejo
Did the transport helicopters return? I havent seen anything about them but I was just wondering if they had returned and if so made any better...

I have not seen any transport helos in Civ4.

That would be a unit I would mod in if I were going to port my Civ3 mod over to Civ4.

You know now that you mention it, I have not seen any paratroopers in civ4 either. How much you wanna bet that will all be in an expansion pack?

[Falconius]

The combat penalty for attacking across river looks like an easy mod: Marines start with the Amphibious Promo, which negates the river-crossing penalty. Just need to give copters the same trait. Too tired now, will look at it tomorrow. (Yes, I've been playing 'til 3am!!!)

Giving them the ability to cross lakes might be trickier. Units seem to be designated as air, land or sea. Air units (fighters & bombers) behave totally differently than copters, which are then in the land unit category. So getting them to cross a lake might not be possible to mod. Will check it out though.

[ajbera]

Another oddity is that you can't select Medic I or II upgrades for them. This should be readily changeable in the editor, though (I hope).

[Akaoz]

Originally posted by ajbera
Another oddity is that you can't select Medic I or II upgrades for them. This should be readily changeable in the editor, though (I hope).

Yeah, but my promoted Cavalery often has Medic I and II, so when I upgrade they keep it.

[Tuberski]

I'd give helos the ability to fly over water befroe mountains. Helos are on almost all naval ships when they are out to sea.

ACK!

[MattPilot]

Originally posted by Akaoz


Yeah, but my promoted Cavalery often has Medic I and II, so when I upgrade they keep it.

Yea.. thats an awesome thing that your units keep your previous upgrades.

I upgraded a swordsman with 75% attack bonus on cities to a rifleman. Boy did that guy kick arse! It became even more unbalancing after he became an infantry ...

FYI: gunpowder units can't get city attack bonus'.

[Akaoz]

I like upgrading Archers with First Fire promotions to infantry

[Dis]

Originally posted by Sarxis
The river thing I can understand, but the other two I think have to do with the gunships being more akin to ground units than air units.

In fact, helicopters do have a hard time flying in mountainous terrain due to the altitude and temperatures.

true about helicopters in the mountains. I think we had some issues in afghanistan because of the high altitude mountains and our choppers.

[meel]

Helicopters can be attacked by non-ranged ground units. Knights/pikemen/macemen/etc should just be mowed down, what are they doing, throwing their weapons into the rotors?

And artillery can also attack helicopters. While I can see a catapult maybe getting a lucky shot, there should probably be a pretty large penalty associated, but there isn't.

Copters can also pillage 4 times per turn, which seems a bit much imo.

Finally, there's no upgrade on them like others mentioned. They own WWII tanks, but lose to modern armor and mech infantry, which makes them pretty worthless late game except as a pillaging tool.

[MattPilot]

May i suggest a higher difficult level if you are fighting gunships vs knights?


Anyway, I think gunships shouldn't have the pillage option. I'ts not like they are landing, jumpin out, and collecting their loot.

Also, gunships are very good vs armored units. +100%. Since armor doesn't get defensive bonus, that puts gunships vs armor equal.

Now add a +25 against armor promotion and see who has the upper hand. Perfect to counter those Modern Armor stack attacks people where suggesting.

[Akaoz]

Having only First Strike units able to attack the Gunship isn't such a bad idea. However, all gunpouder units should have First Strike. I have no idea why they don't.