Which civs/leaders should be in the expansion?

[Senethro]

Re: What about the Hebrews/judeans?

Originally posted by Squie
I for one would like to see the Hebrews, one of the oldest civilizations on the planet. they started as pagans, but then adopted monotheism, and eventually the religeous beleifs of jewdaism.
They also spawned the two most influential world religeons, Islam, and Christianity. The three Abrahamic religeons, which most countries laws are based on.

They have many unique historical units to consider:
The macabies, maybe a swordsman replacement.
(Macabies 7, 1 - city raider 2 - replaces swordsman)
Not to mention the current Isralie army has one of the best trained air forces in the modern world, which could lead to an advanced helicopter unit.
(Hebrew Gunship, 22, 5 - Invisible)
Not to mention the multitudes of paratroopers used to restore order in jerusalem during the seven days war. It would be nice to see the paratroopers in a civ game again!

And as for leaders, David and/or Solomon the wise are obvious biblical choices, as well as the first female biblical hero - Ruth. Or even that christian villan herod.
As for more modern leaders, how about Yitzhak Rabin, or Golda Meir?

David - Spiritual and Creative, Favours free speach
Solomon - Philosophical, Industrial, Favours theocracy
Ruth - Expansive, creative, Favours Nationhood
Herod - Industreous, Financial, Favours monarchy
Yitzhak Rabin - philisophical, spiritual, favours univeral sufferage
Golda Meir - Agressive, organised, favours beurocracy

What'd'ya think?

Wheres the empire? Where are the statues? Where are the big stone phallic symbols?

An influential people? It can be argued that way. A "civilization" by Civ standards? Not really.

[Squie]

Wheres the empire? Where are the statues? Where are the big stone phallic symbols?

The Hebrews/Judeans created many major projects, including the first temple of jerusalem, and then the much grander temple of solomon. They are also credited with creating the education system, and were thousands of years ahead of the rest of the world in hygenics.
There is also great works such as Messada which was one of the greatest forts of the peroid.
Not to mention that both christianity and Islam are offshoots of the monotheistic religeon that the Hebrew/Judean people believed in. The pentateuach (Torah/old testament) is still the basis for most modern legal systems, and is probably one of the most influential books ever written.
They also boast some of the oldest cities in the world, jerusalem, meggido, Gezer, Hazor.
In addition they were the first civilization to mass produce copper, and created procecies for refining and smelting metals.
Not to mention that in modern times they have one of the best trained military forces in the world. After only 24 hours of nationhood, Isreal was attacked by 5 arab countries, and still the far less equiped IDF beat off the oppressors intent on sending the jewish people into the meditaranian sea. Isreal has never started a war, and yet it is always able to defend iteslf better than it could be attacked.
Isreal is an active member of the UN, and has many free trade agreements with Europe and the US (one of it's closest allies).

As for statues, they are forbidden by law (the same reason you can't write g-d's name, or show m-hammad represented by man.

It is one of only a handful of civilizations that have lasted over 4000 years... I can't think of another off-hand.

If these reasons don't make it a civilization fit for Civ4, then I would argue that many of the Civilizations in Civ4 don't either.

[piotrr]

Originally posted by Azuarc
I have to ask...does a culture have to be "civilized" to be a civilization? What distinguishes a barbarian tribe like the Huns or Goths from the Mongolian horde?

That's easy, we'll just use the good old definition that a Barbarian is anyone who isn't greek!

Originally posted by Azuarc Egypt DESPERATELY needs another ruler. Any of the great pharaohs would do. (How many of you honestly had ever even heard of Hapshetsut?)

What, are you kidding? Hatshepsut? This time I'm not being ironic, I'm sincerely wondering if there really are any civilization / history buffs who haven't heard of the female Pharao who ruled the longest, for twenty years, and built a fantastic temple at Deir al-Bahri.

Yes, she was actively "hidden" by foes and those who would oppose the rule of a female pharao, but she was certainly a influential, efficient and godly ruler in her own right.

And also she has a character in Unreal Tournament.

/ Per

[Killazer]

I dont think they would put Hitler in but its kindof hard to not include Stalin. He was leader of the USSR for like 40 years or something and won ww2. Hilter just killed a bunch of people and got his country wiped out not exactly a leader to remember there lol. Stalin killed a bunch of people as well but at least he won lol.

[ScreamingViking]

Just a few scatterd thoughts...

Vikings/Scandanavia/etc.: This is a popular, and vastly underestimated group. Lest we forget that they are widely credited as being the first discoverers of the New World. Had William of Normandy failed to win at the Battle of Hastings (1066), there very well would have been a vast Nordic confederacy encompassing Scanadavia, Eastern Europe (Kievan Rus), Iceland, Greenland, the Faeroes, and, yes, the British Isles. Besides, they have a distinctive UU (Berserk-swordsman with amphibious assault), and they add colour.

We need some sort of Babylon/Akkad/Sumer/Assyrian civ. Aside from Arabia, the developers have all but ignored the fertile crescent.

Carthage is another must. Or Phoenicia. There has already been much documentation on them on this thread. Turks as well.

I like the idea of another Eastern Europe civ. Hungary or Poland or even Scythians.

Bring back the Zulus, again for colour.

Pacific Islanders still dont work. Most notablety because only an archapelago map would make them look right.

I also agree that the religon balance is a little off. Confucianism, Taoism, Buddism, and Hinduism. Add in the western religions, and it leaves no room for anything after the 8th century to be founded. How about Protestantism (discovered with Printing Press), or replacing 1 of Confucianism or Taoism with Shinto. I heavily agree with an earlier post that suggested a mod that allows the renaming and limiting of religions. That, or preferred religions for civs to convert to. I can't get over the oddity of Arabian Jews, Confucian Americans, and the ubiquitous Buddhist Spaniards.