Vel's Strategy Thread

[Velociryx]

Yep...I'll admit, I'm a strong believer in the "big stick" philosophy, and having played both aggressive AI and raging barbs, those numbers actually feel light...

In general, I invest heavily in military, even though I too spend most of my time building, rather than warmongering. I just prefer that the fight be on my terms, rather than dictated to me by those with a stronger force (and if you have a smallish army, relative to your enemy, he will, by default, be able to dictate the terms of the battle, as what defenders you have will be frantically responding to the invasion).

AI's tend not to even try if they know you'll be a lot of trouble (unless they REALLY have a beef with you--religion or something). Other than that tho, if you've got a burgeoning military apparatus, they'll leave you be.

re: the metals thing...yep...gold and silver...always brings a smile to my face!

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

Regarding stone/marble - iffy, IMO. On the higher levels, you've really gotta ask yourself what your chances are of nabbing that wonder, realistically. If not so great, then I'd forestall stone/marble until I got some other stuff sorted out (wouldn't make it a priority over, say, animal husbandry, assuming some farm animals in the vicinity), and pick it up in time for the "second round" of wonders, but....if you're industrious, and blessed with either, then I agree, a strong case for it could definitely be made!

-=Vel=-

[Cort Haus]

Fishing & early workboats can be useful. I built one soonish in a second city, and combined with a Cow, the food surplus allowed that city to pump workers & settlers while the capital got on with library & Stonehenge. If the best nearest food spot is on the coast, Fishing can pay off, I think.

[Arrian]

Indeed. I've seen starting spots w/2 fish in the radius. Then it's definitely worth it. That sort of food is the CivIV equivalent of a "settler pump." Good commerce, too.

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

Oh, I agree that Fishing can pay dividends (someone else mentioned a hidden advantage to the tech, that being, while you're working on a workboat, your city continues to grow...not so with a worker).

But in the early game, Fishing is one of those techs that's so completely terrain dependant (must be on the coast, must--for me, anyway--*at least* 2-3 (I'd prefer 4+) "seafood" tiles in sight....In my experience, it's just not one of those techs I'm dying to have right off the bat.

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

It's one of the many "well, under certain circumstances..." paths. And of course some civs start with it.

Anyway, I continue to attempt to pull off the Civil Service via Oracle beeline + Pyramids so I can use Representation + Bureacracy + Caste System (whilst founding Confucism), and then on to Pacifism.... kinda the ultimate builder route, wouldn't you say? Thus running such a weak military. It *has* gotten me in trouble, though. I loathe the Mongols and their Keshiks!

-Arrian

[Velociryx]

total agreement! Under the right circumstances, it can pay early. I wonder if a civ that starts with fishing is pre-disposed to land near the coast? Something I've not experimented much with.

And I like the beeline you mentioned....that pretty well locks down every builder element in the game, I'd say!

-=Vel=-
(only time I like the Mongols is when I'm *playing* them.... )

[Fried-Psitalon]

Bah, I much prefer Oracle-for-Metal Casting. Give me forges worldwide than one big city. Colossus GOOD!

I'm actually a fan of grabbing fishing early if you have even one coastal resource, both because your city grows, and also because they don't make the worst scouts in the world, used like Curraghs.

[Velociryx]

Well, at least, once Forges do what they're supposed to do, anyways...

Yeah, Fishing has it's uses....IMO, you just get more mileage, more quickly, out of the others, especially with even nominal cultural expansion (in the games I've played so far, I've been able to average 3-5 critters/crops in my core, compared with 1-2 seafoods.....more value, more quickly from going the other route, but of course, that too, depends on what you're shooting for.

-=Vel=-

[Arrian]

Hrm... what's wrong with forges, btw? I haven't been paying any attention to the actual numbers... are they not adding the 25% to hammer production?

-Arrian

[Fried-Psitalon]

Forges work just fine, last I checked - Ironworks is another story.

[Velociryx]

I've seen it reported twice that the NUMBER changes, but your build times don't drop.

Have not tested it for myself yet, but there's at least some evidence that something is amiss.

-=Vel=-

[Velociryx]

ahhh...mayhaps I'm mis-remembering. Will review my notes when I get home (one of the disadvantages of getting old, not having a photographic memory, and being separated from my notes!)
-=Vel=-

[Footie Mad]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Regarding stone/marble - iffy, IMO. On the higher levels, you've really gotta ask yourself what your chances are of nabbing that wonder, realistically. If not so great, then I'd forestall stone/marble until I got some other stuff sorted out (wouldn't make it a priority over, say, animal husbandry, assuming some farm animals in the vicinity), and pick it up in time for the "second round" of wonders, but....if you're industrious, and blessed with either, then I agree, a strong case for it could definitely be made!

-=Vel=-

I must disagree here, having access to stone early gives you chance to really rush for one of the best wonders in the game, Pyramids. Of course using chops and possibly a mined hill, I have done this as early as in my second city with good results on monarch. The key to not making this a "make it or break it" strategy that makes you quit if someone gets there before you is that you get a clump of cash if that's the case. This means you can expand and run a deficit for a pretty long time, that can really give you a boost that enables you to play "beyond your limits".

[Velociryx]

I agree with this point...somewhat, with the provison that the higher you go in level of difficulty, the more difficult it is to make this play successfully.

Here's what I mean:

* If you don't think you can win the race, IMO, you hobble yourself by devoting one of the only two cities you've got for some coin later (on the one hand, you could have had BOTH your cities working toward your expansion, and on the other, you weaken your expansion drive now, for a bit of coin down the road, to drive your expansion at full speed later).

* If the Pyramids aren't key to your plans, and you research masonry in preference for something that truly *is* key, it seems to me that you're shooting yourself in the foot for what amounts to a "definite maybe."

Having said this, I'll admit that the times I've gone for the Pyramids on Monarch and below, I've had better than average success at it, and synergy comes into play here (on Diety Level, a determined Industrious player with stone and some chops could likely beat the AI's to Pyramids if a concerted effort was made).

Personally, even WITH stone in the immediate vicinity, I'd prefer a slightly later start on the Pyramids, in preference for nailing down the seminal techs, and making up for lost time via chops, researching Masonry after I get the groundwork put together.

-=Vel=-