Pyramids now a huge imbalance?

[Thud]

The Pyramids were all that is representative of brutal oppression and complete tyranny. So when I build them, I get to usher in Universal Suffrage? I think not.

I agree about the Internet. I am really disappointed in the Great Library. Actually, I'm disappointed with the way Wonders are so weak anyway.

[proviisori]

Originally posted by iannac
Bring back Darwin while they're at it. Add massive amounts of religion to the game and remove Darwin? Where was this game made Kansas?

but...

I'm very sad/angry that Darwin's voyage is removed from the game.

Although it is partially incorrect theory from a modern perspective, it is GROUNDBREAKING study that redefined biology and other sciences. It was my favorite wonder in civ II. (good benefits and GREAT movie)

[Simplicity]

Civics schmivics. The *real* benefit of building the pyramids is the production of Great Engineers.

[Arrian]

Well, as a counter to the "Kansas" issue, the first civ to discover Liberalism gets a free tech

Given the way the civics work - 5 categories, 5 choices in each, I don't think the Pyramids are overpowered. They're nice, but not overly so. As for realism... heh, no argument there. But it's Civ, which has never been overly attached to realism.

-Arrian

[OzzyKP]

Maybe they could make it cheaper and just limit it to any *labor* civic choice. That makes sense (pyramids and labor have a good connection). And labor (in my opinion) is one of the more powerful of the civic choices, plus the one you have to wait the longest to get full access to.

[ieolus]

Originally posted by Simplicity
Civics schmivics. The *real* benefit of building the pyramids is the production of Great Engineers.

Bingo! That is why I try to build it. Gotta love Great Engineers baby!!

[baboon]

Originally posted by Simplicity
Civics schmivics. The *real* benefit of building the pyramids is the production of Great Engineers.

Indeed. That's what makes the Pyramids overpowered (or just important). I assume the topicstarter was pointing to that. Try for once to get a Great Engineer without it, good luck with that.

I missed the Pyramids in all my 3 games so far, pretty annoying. It will be my main strategy in the next one.

[baboon]

Originally posted by Thud
The Pyramids were all that is representative of brutal oppression and complete tyranny. So when I build them, I get to usher in Universal Suffrage? I think not.

I agree about the Internet. I am really disappointed in the Great Library. Actually, I'm disappointed with the way Wonders are so weak anyway.

Wonders have two benefits: the wonder itself and the great people you get.

[Styrman]

If anyone here is familiar with the ancient Egypt, then they would know that the Egyptian society in that era was in some respects more advanced than Western civilization today. And no, they did not have slave labourers moving the stones around.
So, owerpowered, or not, but it still could make sense.
And no, I have not played the game yet, as it takes ages before it arrives to where I live.

[Fried-Psitalon]

Honestly, the Pyramids are a pretty dubious early build in my view. Maybe late Classical, but before that? No thanks.

Consider the usefulness of the choices:

Hereditary Rule - you can get this at Monarchy and probably should on the way to Feudalism.

Police State - granted, a significant warmonger civic. The cost, combined with the added cost of troops for war, though... careful!

Representation - happiness is nice... but how many specialists are you using this early? And is the immense shield cost of this guy really worth the happiness? I'd rather build cities around luxuries.

Universal Suffrage - maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I don't have the kind of money to make this civic work early.
...........

As for the Great Engineer issue; granted, it's nice to have, but the Pyramids alone don't crank that many points, and it means your chances of getting an early prophet for your Holy City is a lot lower. A second Great Engineer from the Pyramids will take quite awhile after that first one.

It's not a bad wonder, but it's no gamebreaker - takes forever to build in a critical time, for effects that don't really kick in until the Medieval(ish.)

None of the wonders are gamebreakers; only significant advantages - and that's how it should be.

[Arrian]

What Fried said. Much better than I said it (I was trying to say the same thing, really I was!).

-Arrian

[Matthew]

Originally posted by Mayfield
Considering that all of the Wonders just give small bonuses, it is surprising that the Pyramids give you all the Government types. it would make more sense that you get a small bonus like +1 hammer/square in that city/obsolete when discovering so and so tech.

I don't know that they're all weak. The Partheon (Parthanon, something like that) seems pretty potent, especially if you are already a philosophical civ. One thing I hadn't thought of was to combine the pyramids with this one.

And stonehedge? Talk about bang for the buck, especially if you have stone !

And yes, early on the ability to rush construction doesn't mean much, but a bit later on?

[Fried-Psitalon]

I often refer to Stonehenge as the ultimate "Junk wonder." I'm not impressed with it at all. Calendar makes it obsolete (and provides the world-centering effect, which isn't terribly useful pre-Caravel anyhow), the culture bonus is duplicated by a spreading religion (which most builders who would build Stonehenge have), and if you're trying to get Great Prophet points running, the Oracle is a far better choice.

Different people have different tastes, but I don't care much for Stonehenge at all, unless I'm just grabbing points in MP.

[Arrian]

What exactly does "world centering" do for you, Fried?

I figure Stonehenge may be worth it if:

1) You have stone
2) You're not creative
3) You don't feel like going after any of the early religions.

It seems like a wonder that might be useful for those who want to concentrate on early warfare.

-Arrian

[Fried-Psitalon]

Makes the minimap "snap to" showing your location on the world grid; otherwise that'll stay centered on your capital until you know enough information for it to show otherwise.