Apolyton Civ4 PREVIEW (By Solver) - Part 2 online

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Harrier UK

and regarding modder issues . . well, modders should know what they're doing if they want to keep a fair game.

Your correct getting the balance right in a mod. is what takes the time.

It is not just about adding new things or altering existing features.

No. While right in general, in the cited case he is wrong. Changing settings for a civilization is not comparable with modding in the sense of changing game rule rules, unit strengths or costs etc. and should not demand balancing. Who tinkers with civ settings, for instance to mod in his own nation, be it traits, favored civics or whatever should not be in danger to generate an unbalanced result, if he uses valid editor options, at least not without warning. Not everybody reads internet fora, and most people wouldn't even know about it, when they fiddle around with the editor.

[Solver]

1) have you actually won a game by conquering all other civs? As what I'm reading by now this may very well be one of the hardest ways to win?

I have not. I've won Domination - if you play with it on, that triggers before Conquest, obviously.

You said the Notre Dame would give points for a great artist. Would't it be logical to get great priest points for it?

Balance is the main thing. At that point in the game, Artists are more useful, and generally you'll find that what points Wonders give is attempted to be balanced.

[Fidel]

sorry i asked it in markos preview thread, but i have to do it again - can you raze a holy city? what happens with religion it harbors? what are the other effects? ever done it?

[realpolitic]

Originally posted by TheDarkside
Hey that's interesting. On the first screen shot it shows solver has 16 theatres. So unless cottages/towns/villages can have improvements that means he has at least 16 cities... that's actually alot of cities ! I considered 16 cities a big empire in the early Civs...

Really? I always found the 10, 20, 35 & 60 city limits for govts in ctp2 to be quite confining, but improved gameplay. Guess its gonna be a while before I play at Diety.

[Harrier UK]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph


No. While right in general, in the cited case he is wrong. Changing settings for a civilization is not comparable with modding in the sense of changing game rule rules, unit strengths or costs etc. and should not demand balancing. Who tinkers with civ settings, for instance to mod in his own nation, be it traits, favored civics or whatever should not be in danger to generate an unbalanced result, if he uses valid editor options, at least not without warning. Not everybody reads internet fora, and most people wouldn't even know about it, when they fiddle around with the editor.

With the casual use of the Editor - I agree selecting the two combinations Ind/Phil. could be a problem. But I do not consider that modding in the true sense.

Modding to me is adding something to the game not just changing some setting via the editor.

Of course sticking to a dictionary definition of modding I would be wrong - but it is just my opinion.

[playshogi]

What if you build a cottage on a square that subsequently grows into a town, and then suddenly you discover oil beneath the town! Do you have to tear down your town to exploit the oil? If you do tear down that town, does it cause a lot of unhappiness?

[sabrewolf]

solver,

1) does the cottage tile have to be worked on in order for it to grow?

2) with tile improvements in civ3, railroads basically doubled mining and irrigation effects... depicting the productivity rise in the industrial era. how is this effect in civ4 done? do you have more advanced improvements that come with later techs? or do the improvements automatically gain effect with time? something else?

[Harrier UK]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
solver,
2) with tile improvements in civ3, railroads basically doubled mining and irrigation effects... depicting the productivity rise in the industrial era. how is this effect in civ4 done? do you have more advanced improvements that come with later techs? or do the improvements automatically gain effect with time? something else?

I would have thought that this is covered by the cottage growing into a hamlet and then a town. As each gives extra benefit. Just a guess.

[Solver]

Cottage tiles have to be worked by cities to grow.

Railroads increase productivity of some shield improvements - mines for sure, and I think Lumbermills, too.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Not food though, Solver? Thats unfortunate because in reality RR allowed more materials to be shipped in a shorter period of time (which is what I feel the +1 hammer and/or +1 food represents). Sure I can mod it though.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Solver]

Nah, you do get a food bonus later in the game anyway. It wouldn't be good for gameplay to put too many bonuses on one thing. Like, Civ3 RRs = infinite movement, plus more food, plus more production = BAAAAAD.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

Thanks for that Solver. I guess so long as their is SOME food bonus in the game, then that will do. You are right that too many bonuses can be unbalancing.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Solver
Nah, you do get a food bonus later in the game anyway. It wouldn't be good for gameplay to put too many bonuses on one thing. Like, Civ3 RRs = infinite movement, plus more food, plus more production = BAAAAAD.

yes, RRs were exadurated, nonetheless i want my 20th century farms to massively outproduce the 3000BC farms. technolies such as crop rotation, taming bulls and horses, mills.. later fungicides and pesticides, tractors, distribution nets, economy of scale, etc all made today's agriculture endlessly superior to ancient ages.

i agree that RR's movement bonus should have been separated from the productivity gain. iirc in civ2 you could build supermarkets and thereby have the farms give +1 food. or were they motorways? i don't remember, too long ago...

anyhow, can you tell us how this food bonus is implemented in civ4? will you actually be able to have 4 specialists in a city and still grow and have a reasonably decent production? or is it more like civ3 where without floodplains or bonus resources you could not really massively grow?

[Solver]

Everything depends on terrain, your choices, etc.

A city located in the middle of floodplains is a GREAT specialist farm. Farm the floodplains, your city supports a number of specialists, excellent. You can, later, put some Watermills around that city for productvity. Or, use Priests/Engineer specialists which give shields, too.

Food bonuses... Civil Service tech lets you build Farms where you previously couldn't, and with Biology, your farms become more productive for food, likely indeed giving you support for extra specialists if you want that.

[sabrewolf]

that's what i wanted to know... thanks