Draft Guide on which is the ideal Civilization to choose from depending on the vic

[Drakan]

Draft Guide on which is the ideal Civilization to choose from depending on the victory condition sought.

The Civilizations in Civ IV have the traits of their respective Leaders.

The game will be released in October with 18 civs. Some Civilizations have two leaders to choose from, others only have one. In the expansion packs to be released later on, new civs and perhaps new traits, will be added on.

Civ IVs traits:

Aggressive (Militaristic): Free promotion of melee and gunpowder units. Double production speed of barracks and dry dock.
Creative (Cultural): +2 culture per city. Double production speed of theater, coliseum.
Expansive (Agricultural): +2 health per city. Double production speed of granary and harbor.
Financial (Commercial): +1 gold on plots with 2 gold. Double production speed of bank.
Industrious: Wonder production increased 50 percent. Double production speed of forge.
Organized: Civic upkeep reduced 50 percent. Double production speed of lighthouse and courthouse.
Philosophical (Scientific):Birth rate of Great People increased 100 percent. Double production speed of university.
Spiritual (Religious): No anarchy. Double production speed of the temple.

Depending on the victory condition sought some Civs -and leaders- might prove more adequate.

Victory Types:

1. Warmonger:

Conquest or Domination.

Good combo traits in order of importance: Agressive, Expansive (discount on Granaries), Industrious (Discount on Forge; units produced faster with Forge) and Organized (reduced upkeep of civics)

CIVILIZATIONS:


Aztecs (Aggressive and Spiritual. UU: jaguar warrior which replaces swodsmen)
French (leader Napoleon are Agressive and Industrious. UU: musketeer for defense I guess).
Germans (leader Otto Von Bismarck are Expansive and Industrious. UU: Panzer).
Greeks (are Agressive and Philosophical. UU: Macedonic Phalanx)
Incas (are Agressive and Commercial. UU: Quechua which replaces warrior)
Japanese (are Agressive and Organized. UU: Samurai)
Mongols (both leaders are Agressive albeit Genghis has a beter warmonguer combo being Expansive. UU: Keshik)
Persians (are Expansive and Organized. UU: Immortals ´nuff said !)

2. Builder Victories:

a) SS and Diplomatic.

Good combo traits in order of importance: Industrious (50% discount on Forge), Philosophical (50% increased Birth Rate of Great people cumulative with Pacifism Civics= Great Scientists, Great Engineers, Tycoons ... and discount on Universities) and Expansive (discount on Granaries help to spike pop-boom sooner as well as REXing), Financial (to cash-rush improvements and units)

CIVILIZATIONS:

Indians (with Ghandi are Industrious and Spiritual. UU: fast-worker. This is “THE” Builder-Civilization)
Americans (with Roosevelt are Industrious and Organized)
Chinese (with Quin Shi Huang are Industrious and Commercial)
English (with Elisabeth are Financial and Philosophical and with Victoria are Expansive and Financial)
Germans (with Otto Von Bismarck are Expansive and Industrious. UU: Panzer).
Russians (with Peter the Great are Expansive and Philosophical)



b) Cultural Victory.

Good combo traits in order of importance: Creative (added culture), Spiritual (discount on temples), Industrious (allows 50% discount on Great Wonder construction), Philosophical (allows 50% increased Birth Rate of Great People= Great Artists (culture bombs) and discount on Universities etc.)

CIVILIZATIONS:

Indians (with Asoka are Organized and Spiritual. UU= fast-worker).
Arabs (are Philosophical and Spiritual)
Chinese (with Mao Zedong are Philosophical and Organized)
English (with Elizabeth are Philosophical and Financial)
Egiptians (are Spiritual and Creative)
French (with Luis XIV are Creative and Organized)
Germans (with Frederick are Creative and Philosophical)
Romans (are Expansive and Creative)
Russians (with Catherine are Creative and Commercial)
Españoles (son Expansivos y Espirituales y algo bromistas)

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I’ve written this as a Draft Guide to encourage debate amongst the Civ Community. It is by no means meant to be a closed list or classification.

As we still don’t know the features of the UUs or Civics I haven’t really taken them into account in this draft classification so they are in fact underrated until we know more. i.e. the Russians could be moved from a Builder Civ to a Warmonguer classification depending on the attributes (movement, hammer cost, attack) granted to its UU, the Cosack.

Some Civilizations haven’t been included in this provisional classification (such as the Malinese) because their combo trait didn’t particularly fit any classification (second-tier) or else there were other civ leaders with better combos for a given classification.

Constructive criticisms are more than welcome and are the purpose of this thread. I will not tolerate being flamed and will ignore such offensive posts.

Datalink:

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/civilizationiv/preview_6134343.html

[Martinus]

For a military victory I think French under Napoleon are possibly the best. Aggressive and Industrious means you can get the infrastructure and units fast enough, and musketeer special unit means you are strong mid-game where it is going to matter (Alexander could be the ideal for military victory on a small map, since he will likewise dominate the early game with phalanx).

Also remember that "good defense" vs. "good offense" no longer is that important in CivIV, since there is no separate offense vs. defense rating, just one power rating (and you can specialize from there).

As for the SS victory, I would say Germans under Frederick (Creative, Philosophical) stand a very good chance of getting it, both due to fast scientific advances, and an increased number of great people (meaning, they will be able to finish wonders and SS components much faster). Plus, the panzer unit gives them the edge to defend themselves in the late game, when someone may want to prevent them from finishing the SS.

[Drakan]

The Civilizations are not put in order of bets in the classification.

French look to be extremely good as warmonguers under Napoleon. I'd also agree they look the most promising for warmongers at large.

I don't agree with you that the combo traits of Frederick are the best for SS victory type. I think the Industrious trait is a must for Builder victories.

You see the Industrious trait speeds up 50% Great Wonder Production. And there's anew Great Wonder called The Space Elevator (on the sideline I guess that's a wink to SMAC fans) which halfs the time needed to build the 12 SS components on Civ IV.

Philosophical is undoubtledly a very good scientific trait (half cost universites) but I doubt Creative is fitting for a SS victory.

Obviously the ideal combo trait would be Industrious and Philosophical, but Firaxis have excluded that combination probably because it was far too overpowering and created an unbalance issue.

[conmcb25]

Very nice start.

[Drakan]

; Thanks. I wanted to stir the Civ Comm to talk on this.

[Martinus]

Oh right, you are correct. For some reason I thought Creative gives bonus to science, not culture.

However, I am not sure whether it is Philosophical or Industrious that are better for a SS. Remember that great people can be used to finish any wonder or project in a turn. Assuming that SS components do not qualify as wonders for the purpose of the Industrious special ability (and assuming it is not a typo ) I think Philosophical will be better for that.

Since there is no Philosophical/Industrious combo, the next best imo for that is Philosophical/Financial (since more cash means you can buy non-wonder buildings which leaves you more time for the core SS and wonders) which leaves English under Lizzie as a likely candidate.

Alternatively, for the same reasons (and assuming Industrious means +50% wonder production) the Chinese under Qin have a good shot at this victory too.

[Drakan]

Originally posted by Martinus
However, I am not sure whether it is Philosophical or Industrious that are better for a SS. Remember that great people can be used to finish any wonder or project in a turn. Assuming that SS components do not qualify as wonders for the purpose of the Industrious special ability (and assuming it is not a typo ) I think Philosophical will be better for that.

If that were so, I'd agree with you.

But you still have the GW Space Elevator which halfs the time of 12 SS components. If you're Industrious, you might have a better shot at it in a close call. I guess the difficulty level will inffluence this.

I'd say the best combo for SS would then be Industrious and Expansive, which happen to not exist as well I've just noticed, or Philosophical and Expansive.

[Martinus]

For diplomatic victory I also think the traits would be quite different than for a SS one.

As I see it, the main traits for that would be: Financial (money for bribes), Organised (can maintain "expensive" civics to make others happy), Spiritual (more temples = better spread of your national religion = more fellow believers among other rulers; can change civics without anarchy to make others happy) and possibly Creative ("Chinese are in awe of our culture").

Americans under Washington would therefore be the likely candidate to achieve the Diplomatic victory (especially as it will be possible only in the end game, when their Navy Seals would serve as the ultimate mean of "persuasion" )

[Drakan]

I was thinking this too. Perhaps I should've classified both victory types as distinctly separate.

I threw both of them in the same bag because from my Civilization III experience they are both similar to attain.

But Civilization IV is a whole different affair and the Civics feature might change this considerably. Considering how they seem to have beefed up the diplomatic options in Civ IV things might be very different.

It's hard to tell now really without playing the game.

[Martinus]

One thought that just occured to me - we should not disregard the "Organized" trait that helps to maintain more "expensive" civics, as they may be very useful in achieving some victories.

For example, if some expensive civics help the spread/generation of culture, Creative/Organized French under Louis XIV would be the favoured civilization for the cultural victory. Likewise, Organized/Philosophical Chinese under Mao Zedong stand a good chance for a great people rush, if Pacifism is an expensive civic to maintain.

[Martinus]

Now I wish there were more victories available, e.g.:

- commercial victory: you have (via trade routes or own production) all resources in game and a certain percentage of them is monopolised by you (i.e. noone else produces them),

- religious victory: X% of the world populace follows a religion of which the holy city you control,

- dominance victory: X% of landmass covered by you (like in Civ III).



Maybe it is something for expansion packs (or mods, if the game code is flexible/modable enough).

[Drakan]

Really ? Isn't the Domination vic enabled in civ IV ?

Well the cumulative effect of the Pacifism Civic and the Philosophical trait actually doubles (triples ?) the birth rate of Great People.

This could have a very dramatic effect popping Great Wonders (rushed by GP) or for scientific advances. You could then trade them around and rake in massive ammounts of cash to further boost your tech pace and further distance yourself from your competitors leaving you as an economical leach that sustains its costly research programme relying on tech deals with other civs.

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Drakan
Really ? Isn't the Domination vic enabled in civ IV ?

iirc not. and i remember seeing somewhere in the list of victory types that cultural victory was not in anymore. i hope that's not true

[Martinus]

Originally posted by sabrewolf


iirc not. and i remember seeing somewhere in the list of victory types that cultural victory was not in anymore. i hope that's not true

I'm pretty sure I read it is in and means having 3 cities above a certain cultural level.

Btw, Drakan, you don't expect me to repost all this in the sister thread on civfanatics, now do you?

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by Martinus
I'm pretty sure I read it is in and means having 3 cities above a certain cultural level.

whew, lucky!

hey, that's a good idea! good mix of the old cultural victory types. do you by chance know if it changes by map size? i know 3 cities fit in pretty much everywhere, but the percentage of cities allocated to cultural buildings could play a role...