I'm Still not convinced

[ozmono1914]

Civilization IV will NOT be a great game, it will be a slight improvement over the others and just like other sequels it will be more fun initially but won't sustain a significantly enhanced gaming experience.

Firaxis is moving in the direction they wanted(to bad for me). The screen shots and many other elements look like they've managed to further streamline the CIVILIZATION series. It looks great

My only problem is that I'm going to buy this game sooner or later because a little improvement is better than none. I only wish that all of the attention spent on graphics, UserInterface was spent in important areas.

All who've played any Civ game knows the UserInterface is ALREADY easy to use, the graphics do the job fine . As far as the improvements go, some like the combat system are questionable and the rest to little to late(CTPIIhadRELIGIONwhatHAPPENED?). It seems Soren has managed to keep his promise of "simplifying simplifying simplifying" but was unable to "not change the game to dramatically" as he said in the first PRstatement about civIVwhenEVALUATINGtheSUCCESSFULtraitsOFgameFRANCH ISES

[Harovan]

Re: I'm Still not convinced

Great. Another one, who wants to be convinced.

[ozmono1914]

what do you mean?

I don't understand you but I notice your an emperor and have "support apolyton" on your post always good to get unbiased feedback

[Adagio]

Someone else posted almost the same as you a few weeks ago...

And AFAIK the "support apolyton" is a text that randomly shows for those who haven't subscribed...

[ozmono1914]

yeah I know it was a joke but I didn't know someone posted a post like mine above.

However that said, I think its a fair comment and I think it deserves to be treated as such

Despite if someone has been a member for around 5years or not and despite if there opinions differ, I don't think it should be dismissed for the reasons just mentioned

[ozmono1914]

As I make clear in my first post I just don't think there offering extra depth and I had thought that someone who had been a member for five years was an "emperor" would have the same opinion. HENCE THE JOKE I MADE EARLIER, he wouldn't have remained a member for that long if he was continually dissapointed by the lack of progress since CTPII

BUT back to the original point I don't see why someone who obviously likes and is good at strategy games(I assume those medals represent something) and has been for awhile would support such a move

[Adagio]

Just because it said "Support Apolyton" below (or above, I don't remember) his post doesn't mean that he's a member, and it's not his choice. AFAIK it's random on which post the "support" text goes.
Just because you support Apolyton that doesn't mean that you agree with Firaxis and those who created ctp1/2, it just means you support this site (for one reason or another) to keep the site running... I don't get that msg because I'm a supporter

On topic:
It depends on what you're looking for in a Civ game on if you like Civ4 or not. Do you want more features or do you want the current features to be deeper? Personally I'm looking forward to Civ4 because it adds some features I have been looking for in a Civ game for a long time. Based on everything I know about this game I'm pretty sure I'll be happy about it, of course there's always things I would have done differently, or features I would love to see...

[ozmono1914]

Yeah but if no one likes CIV, if no one likes MOO3 and the rest APOLYTON DOESNT EXIST as it wouldn't have a base but your right just because he supports Apolyton could just mean his frustrated by the LACK OF COMPETETION AND PROGRESS IN this genre LIKE you and I have expressed in this thread

On topic:
I agree with everything you said in regards to RELEVANT issues but I would like it if DEVS started producing games for the "TRUE" strategy fans instead of trying to expand there bottom line(but thats not going to happen, even Paradox seems to be shying away from that)

[Harovan]

My rant about Firaxis

This is a letter of love and peace; I will not lash out against anyone, and I will not use specific names of individuals or organizations that rescue irrationalism from the rubbish heap of history, dust it off, slap on a coat of cheap sophistry, and market it as new and improved. That said, let me merely point out that Firaxis is trying to sell us a pig in a poke. Some background is in order: Firaxis says that individual worth is defined by race, ethnicity, religion, or national origin. Wow! Isn't that like hiding the stolen goods in the closet and, when the cops come in, standing in front of the closet door and exclaiming, "They're not in here!"? Firaxis's tricks manifest themselves in two phases. Phase one: encourage young people to break all the rules, cut themselves loose from their roots, and adopt a pugnacious lifestyle. Phase two: muddy the word "counterrevolutionary". Because of Firaxis's obsession with sadism, on the issue of interdenominationalism, it is wrong again. Sure, Firaxis's sermons prove that it did little to no research before concluding that its shenanigans won't be used for political retribution. But I hope that Firaxis regrets what it has done. There's nothing controversial about that view. It's a fact, pure and simple. It was a fact long before anyone realized that the main dissensus between me and Firaxis is that I contend that I, for one, cannot, in good conscience, step aside and let the worst classes of intolerant usurers there are carve out space in the mainstream for bookish, pestilential politics. It, on the other hand, contends that hectoring New Age maniacs are easily housebroken. I'll tell you what we need to do about all the craziness Firaxis is mongering. We need to find more constructive contexts in which to work toward resolving conflicts. Firaxis believes that it is entitled to nourish unbridled ideologies. Sorry, but I have to call foul on that one.

A study of crapulous, ignorant recidivists indicates broad political and ideological agreement on the use of force combined with a set of simple tactics to achieve their immediate goal: to do the devil's work. The devil not only finds too much mischief for idle hands to do, but increasingly in our contemporary world, he causes witless marauders to construct the spectre of a terrible armed threat. Firaxis ignores a breathtaking number of facts, most notably:

Fact: It's a sad world where repressive dorks have the power to evoke a misdirected response to genuine unresolved grievances.
Fact: It must be reemphasized that it's time for Firaxis to get back on the reality bus.

Fact: I am definitely weary of listening to Firaxis descant on the glories of feudalism.

In addition, Firaxis's intent is to prevent us from asking questions. It doesn't want the details checked. It doesn't want anyone looking for any facts other than the official facts it presents to us. I wonder if this is because most of its "facts" are false. Trapped by the cognitive dissonance engendered by hard evidence and common sense, Firaxis feels obligated to intensify or perpetuate barbarism in a dissolute attempt to justify its statements. Of perhaps even more concern is that Firaxis holds onto power like the eunuch mandarins of the Forbidden City -- sterile obstacles to progress who promote the total destruction of individuality in favor of an all-powerful group.

When one examines the ramifications of letting Firaxis spread hatred, animosity, and divisiveness, one finds a preponderance of evidence leading to the conclusion that I didn't want to talk about this. I really didn't. But I need your help if I'm ever to keep our priorities in check. "But I'm only one person," you might protest. "What difference can I make?" The answer is: a lot more than you think. You see, when a mistake is made, the smart thing to do is to admit it and reverse course. That takes real courage. The way that Firaxis stubbornly refuses to own up to its mistakes serves only to convince me that I know more about anarchism than most people. You might even say that I'm an expert on the subject. I can therefore state with confidence that if Firaxis succeeds in its attempt to humiliate, subjugate, and eventually, eliminate everyone who wants to put the kibosh on its rodomontades, it'll have to be over my dead body. Why does vandalism exist? What causes it? And where are the people who are willing to stand up and acknowledge that I am not suggesting government censorship of Firaxis's bloody-minded perorations? To understand the answers to those questions, you first have to realize that I frequently wish to tell Firaxis that I call this phenomenon "Firaxis-ism". But being a generally genteel person, however, I always bite my tongue. It's easy enough to hate Firaxis any day of the week on general principles. But now I'll tell you about some very specific things that Firaxis is up to, things that ought to make a real Firaxis-hater out of you. First off, if this letter did nothing else but serve as a beacon of truth, it would be worthy of reading by all right-thinking people. However, this letter's role is much greater than just to set the record straight. Help me point out the glaring contradiction between Firaxis's idealized view of paternalism and reality. Join your hands with mine in this, the greatest cause of our time.

[Harovan]

Of course, you can generate such a rant too, at http://www.pakin.org/complaint/

And it will be just as valid as the rant in the opening post.

[ozmono1914]

your a fool. Why would you go to all that trouble. Your post is imature to say the least and to be kind.

WHOM MENTIONED FIRAXES???? U or ME??? I thought I only mentioned the GENERAL TREND (I ACTUALLY COMPLEMENTED FIRAXIS ON DOING WHAT THEY SET OUT TO DO and the rest I just expressed my discontentment with that GENERAL TREND
For someone whom has been a member since 2001 I would think you would encourage GOOD conversation instead of acting like the idoit you are

NOW Adagio makes GOOD POINTS and I acknowledge them and if I believe his right I acknolwedge it but you are resorting to name calling(ACTUALLY WORSE THAN NAME CALLING AS THAT CAN BE DONE WITH ABSOLUTE MINIMUN EFFORT)

[Harovan]

It's "You're a fool", Golubchik. And immature with two m, please. Firaxis with an i, too.

Let's see, what pakin.org knows about Ozmono1914:

This is a letter I have planned on writing for some time, a letter that I maintain is extremely important and one that definitely must be heeded if we are to undo the damage caused by Ozmono1914. But first, I'm going to jump ahead a bit and talk in general terms about how Ozmono1914's mentality reminds me of the stereotypical bureaucrat who cannot function unless he can "find it in the manual". Then, I'll back up and fill in some of the details. Okay, so to start with the general stuff, it has been said that unyielding rigidity is just as much a threat to the continuity of things as atrabilious, prissy ruffianism. I, in turn, aver that Ozmono1914 insists that he has the mandate of Heaven to create anomie. Sorry, Ozmono1914, but, with apologies to Gershwin, "it ain't necessarily so." He claims that trees cause more pollution than automobiles do. That claim illustrates a serious reasoning fallacy, one that is pandemic in his teachings. Then again, an armed revolt against Ozmono1914 is morally justified. However, I assert that it is not yet strategically justified.

If everyone does his own, small part, together we can get the facts out in the hope that somebody else will do something to solve the problem. Ozmono1914 and his vicegerents are, by nature, ultra-testy, misguided humanity-haters. Not only can that nature not be changed by window-dressing or persiflage, but this is one letter that Ozmono1914 doesn't want you to read. Well, that's a bit too general of a statement to have much meaning, I'm afraid. So let me instead explain my point as follows: One of the great mysteries of modern life is, Why can't Ozmono1914 simply enjoy the fruits of his own labors and let other people enjoy the fruits of theirs? Well, I asked the question, so I should answer it. Let me start by saying that if we are to address a number of important issues, then we must be guided by a healthy and progressive ideology, not by the ignorant and cranky ideologies that Ozmono1914 promotes. In case you don't know, in order to make Ozmono1914 answer for his wrongdoings, tremendous sacrifices and equally great labors will undeniably be necessary. That's clear. But Ozmono1914 really struck a nerve with me when he said that every word that leaves his mouth is teeming with useful information. That lie is a painful reminder that I believe I have found my calling. My calling is to compare, contrast, and identify the connections among different types of insidious diabolism. And just let him try and stop me. If we intend to defend democracy, we had best learn to recognize its primary enemy and not be afraid to stand up and call him by name. That name is Ozmono1914.

Right on spot, if you ask me.

[ozmono1914]

Thanks for proving my point.

I'll say one last thing before you get your wish and drive me out of this forum.

Even before CIV III and its last expansion I always used to check this site from time to time but no longer (Now it will just be CivFanatics IF they aren't associated with Apolyton) as I don't want to encourage low quality forums


1. If you can understand a word that has been misspelled than chances are anyone can.

2. If you read the post (assuming you can read and you don't have a computer generate all your post) this whole thing would have been avoided

3. By dismissing all views other than your own you only confirm your idiocy

4. You are doing Apolyton a disservice especially if these are your standard manners. (AS I IMAGINE THE OTHER WOULD HAVE MEET AN EQUALLY RUDE RECIPETION

5. By not discussing the points and ignoring them you are implying that you are unable to and thus proving those points correct AND THUS doing Firaxis a disservice

6. By having those medals under your name you are proving that this game needs more depth. Because if an idiot like you can win what does that say about difficulty and complexity of the game?

[Harovan]

Oh, do you really want to leave?

Goodbye, see you on CivFanatics then.

[Solver]

Two points:

I continue to have a problem with the reception that some new posters are getting here. One new player interested in Civ4 has already been driven away, by the immature responses of some, and I wouldn't say that this thread's starter was given a warm welcome, either.

Second, personal insults ARE NOT tolerated here. Make your point, argue all you want, but there is no need for calling people idiots or other similar titles. This is a family site, and we want to keep it civil.