Three months is a long time to scratch the civ itch - apply for a copy of CtP2 & AoM

[yin26]

For what it's worth, I plan to have a full review of AOM posted by the end of the week (with screen shots), etc. I'll hit such topics as ICS, diplomacy, and the rest.

Of course, the best thing to do is just to play it yourself!

EDIT: Well, even if I'm not sure about a full review (getting tired), I think my last post sums most of my thoughts: I do want to highlight my earlier enthusiasm in the early part of the thread. There is some serious promise in AOM...it just needs to be prodded further along in my opinion.

And just to make clear: There are elements of AOM that I think should be in Civ 4 (even if it takes modding, which it likely will). So for my money, most any Civver will likely find a few serious days with AOM to be highly educational and potentially important when thinking about Civ 4 mods months from now.

[yin26]

O.K. I guess I've unsettled the natives over there, but at least we might finally get some real discussion about the game's potential for improvement. I think the last round waged against me is revealing a lot about the game's design and who might enjoy AOM. I'm sure there are those here who would love what it has to offer, but that link might also save you a lot of time if you don't fit a certain gaming profile.

[Proteus_MST]

Hun Island

Now I´m through the dark ages.

I always wondered why I never encountered Attila and his Tarkans.
Well, one of my Ships found out why, patrolling along the shores of a small Island just outside of my nations borders.

I´ve christened it Hun Island

[yin26]

That's hilarious!

[stankarp]

Some would say, a stroke of good luck.

I do however, recommend playing on mainly land and continents as outlined in the readme and strategy guide.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by stankarp
Some would say, a stroke of good luck.

I do however, recommend playing on mainly land and continents as outlined in the readme and strategy guide.

To be honest,
I ´m more the peaceful type, just like hexagonian.

Therefore I like settings like the one shown, with separate continents (in this game 2 large continents and some small islands) and some kind of ocean,
where myself and the AIs are not able to establish contact to all of the other Civilizations from early times on, but have to wait until our seafaring capabilities are developed enough.
It also gives your navy an importance it wouldn´t have with the settings you recommend (I started some other games before, just to get used to AoM and as one would expect, there were no oceans which would reward someone who invests resources in shipbuilding).

If it sometimes leads to results like shown, well let it be so

It really seems to be some kind of lucky game for me, aside from the appearance of Hun Island, all barbarian leaders I eleminated before the dark ages seem to have respawned near other civilizations and gave them a hard time during the dark ages (currently the barbarians seem to own 5 cities, 3 conquered from the english, one from the native Americans and one founded by themselves).

btw.
If you still work on expanding the game,
what do you think about expanding the units from industrial and modern times?
For example including more stages of evolution for the tanks (after all there were at least three stages of Evolution, from the early WW1-Tanks like the Mk IV or the A7V, to the Tanks of WW2, like Sherman or Tiger to modern computerized tanks like the Leopard 2 or the Abrams, which each stage of development being able to destroy tanks of a lower stage with ease)

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

well i don't mind those barbs on an island, its a reward for the task to have your whole continent inside your own borders which can be very hard. to be honest in the times before the dark ages i spent most of my empires resources on that task by building watch towers, watch towers and... well watch towers.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Zaphod Beeblebrox
well i don't mind those barbs on an island, its a reward for the task to have your whole continent inside your own borders which can be very hard. to be honest in the times before the dark ages i spent most of my empires resources on that task by building watch towers, watch towers and... well watch towers.

Yep, same for me.
As soon as I discovered the Aztecs north from my empire,
I began building a chain of Borderforts at the narrowest part of the continent between my civ and the Aztecs, so that I have a border between me and the aztecs.
They often moved stacks into the border after it was conplete, but if I paid them a certain amount (200-100 Gold) they left again the next turn
(now I am at war with them nevertheless, because they attacked an innocent scout which moved along outside of my borders, but as at this time my border was fortified with several 12-Stacks (in Expectation of Atilla who never would come ) it was futile and cost them lots of units (and now I´m on my way to counterattack )

[stankarp]

I have thought about expanding the modern era but I am mindful of how much time it would take and the fact civ 4 is almost here.

I am a realist, AOM was 6 months later than I planned due to slic problems and to do a modern expansion would run into the time civ 4 is here and I doubt there will be much interest after that.

[Jaybe]

Originally posted by stankarp
... I doubt there will be much interest after (Civ4 is released).

Perhaps not short term, but if victory conditions are diversified to cater not only to the warmongers, it could turn into a real sleeper.

... or not, if Civ4 realizes its promises (e.g., easy modability).

[Proteus_MST]

Jep,
after all CtP2 has, thanks to extensive modders like you,
survived much later games like Civ 3 and all its extension packs,
so, like jaybe said, the real question is, if Civ IV can keep the promises its creators make (especially concerning modability).

If it doesn´t people could turn back to CtP2: AoM very fast again

[LDiCesare]

One thing I find unsettling in AoM is the diplomacy. The ai are busy fighting one another when it would really make some sense to ally with a'ny) neighbour in order to fight the other four. I know the CtP2 ai needs to be told to attakc at least 20 times before it does move one stack of 12, but it looks like they are sending their stacks in every direction when they could concentrate on one or two opponents, and ally together to at least keep one border safe.

[stankarp]

One thing I find unsettling in AoM is the diplomacy.

Unfortunately, diplomacy in ctp2 was always the weakest link. And AI to AI diplomacy is even harder to code.

On the other side, if the AI did not fight each other and only half of them concentrated on the human to some degree, the human could never win.

[Dis]

couldn't they be more peaceful?

yes I will start a game of aom soon. But I'm curiuos how much warfare goes on in this game. I hate overly aggressive ai's. You'd think they'd want peace every now and then.

[stankarp]

The diplomacy update makes the ai much more reasonable to deal with. Passive AI, if you give them gifts IMMEDIATELY on meeting, will virtually always agree to a withdraw agreement then a peace treaty, and very rarely will break it.

The other 2 personality types are a problem. The middle level ones can usually be bribed into being friendly, so they are not to great a problem.

However, the aggressive ones usually only agree to a withdraw agrement/treaty if you are much stronger than them. Until you get to 30-40 cities, they cannot be trusted.

Yin played a game of diplo update and was lucky in that he had no aggressive ai near him initially, was able to build a totally peacefull empire for 450 turns without attacking anyone and only minor attacks against him. Once he got big in size, and also after a time, the ai agree to cease fires and treaties so he continued on his building way. But this boring, so we have began playtesting a small variation to change scoring slightly, and introduce more ways the human aggression counter can go up and down.

If you don't like war much, the current diplo update should suit you as you can keep out of ai way and build up until you are strong enough to pressure them.