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Ivan the Terrible wasn´t a heathen commie... 
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I love being beaten by women - Lorizael -
These don't necessarily count as "great leaders."Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Wait... Lenin isn't a "great leader," but Ivan the Terrible was?
Rather, "recognizable, politically correct, inoffensive to living people who might buy the game (ie. not like Stalin or Hitler), symbolic, potentially diverse in the case of two, leaders."
Confused? I sure am.
The Apolytoner formerly known as Alexander01
"God has given no greater spur to victory than contempt of death." - Hannibal Barca, c. 218 B.C.
"We can legislate until doomsday but that will not make men righteous." - George Albert Smith, A.D. 1949
The Kingdom of Jerusalem: Chronicles of the Golden Cross - a Crusader Kings After Action ReportComment
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He was terrible because he succumbed to madness in his later reign and then did a few terrible mistakes, such as killing his own son, but I believe he was one of the Muscowite leaders that had most impact on how Russia became a rising power.Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Wait... Lenin isn't a "great leader," but Ivan the Terrible was?
Do not fear, for I am with you; Do not anxiously look about you, for I am your God.-Isaiah 41:10
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made - Psalms 139.14a
Also active on WePlayCiv.Comment
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Nope. Whatever gains he made in his early reign were rendered moot by the devastation his later reign caused Russia. Upon his death, the country was in tatters thanks to the disastrous Livonian war, and the Oprichniks now were thugs, contributing to depopulation and famine. He turned the richest part of Russia into the poorest and murdered the entire population of Novgorod.Originally posted by Nikolai
He was terrible because he succumbed to madness in his later reign and then did a few terrible mistakes, such as killing his own son, but I believe he was one of the Muscowite leaders that had most impact on how Russia became a rising power.
It took Ivan's successor to rectify much of the damage done during his reign. While the tsar who succeeded him was Feodor I (an imbecile who wouldn't have otherwise ruled if Ivan hadn't murdered his eldest son and heir), this rectifying was the work of Feodor's regent. Who was that man?
Why, Boris Godunov.
Tutto nel mondo è burlaComment
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Did I ever say Ivan the Terrible was a "great leader"??Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Wait... Lenin isn't a "great leader," but Ivan the Terrible was?
hmm?Let Them Eat CakeComment
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We're probably confusing "Great Leaders" for what they represent. Civ made the selection based on their being an easily recognizable icon for their civ. Certainly, many of these leaders (especially the Russian leaders) are far from being "Great".
Of course, PC has a little to do with it. Few leaders in the 20th century are as easily recognizable as Hitler yet he should never be included (which could be a thread topic all by itself).
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)Comment
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Basically, yes.Originally posted by Mace
Did I ever say Ivan the Terrible was a "great leader"??
hmm?Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse
Do It OurselvesComment
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but not specifically
Let Them Eat CakeComment
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Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I actually own that film on DVD. How about you?
No.
However I do actually own 'The End of St Petersburg', 'Alexander Nevski', 'Storm Over Asia', 'Battleship Potemkin' 'Que Viva Mexico!' and 'The Fall of the Romanoffs ' and 'Dersu Uzala'.
And I'm thinking of acquiring 'Man With A Movie Camera'Attached FilesVive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.
...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915Comment
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Battleship Potemkin
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)Comment
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A big talking matrioskaI will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.
Asher on molly bloomComment
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The Russian movie about the defense of Stalingrad was good (though the name escapes me). Also, the movie about the fall of Berlin and Stalin's (fictional) trip there was the pinnacle of propaganda movies of the time.
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)Comment
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I think anyone woud be better than Catherine. The only reason she was in civ 3 is because firaxis didn't want to leave women out (not realizing that historically speaking, women have been left out.) It's stupid to make someone a leader just becaue of their gender. I think that Lenin, Ivan IV, and Stalin are good choices. Lenin and Ivan because they were the most influential in Russian history, and Stalin because he is the most recognizable and most well known.Soren, we need our daily dose of new cIV news otherwise we might not live to buy the game.Comment
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Originally posted by evilnerd15
I think anyone woud be better than Catherine. The only reason she was in civ 3 is because firaxis didn't want to leave women out (not realizing that historically speaking, women have been left out.) It's stupid to make someone a leader just becaue of their gender. I think that Lenin, Ivan IV, and Stalin are good choices. Lenin and Ivan because they were the most influential in Russian history, and Stalin because he is the most recognizable and most well known.
The reason she's in is because in the 18th Century Russia had a series of stunningly incompetent male rulers and ruthless and more than competent female rulers. May I suggest you read a biography of Catherine before jumping to such erroneous conclusions.Vive la liberte. Noor Inayat Khan, Dachau.
...patriotism is not enough. I must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone. Edith Cavell, 1915Comment
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Catherine wasn't called "The Great" for nothing..
she was a hoss
Women as leaders? Certainly some are appropriate. (Jeanne d'Arc vs. the sun king vs. Napolean is debateable)Let Them Eat CakeComment
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