Civ IV artwork has some real problems

[Addled Platypus]

Can I be the department head of BMC

B***h
Moan
Complain

for those who need to know

[Last Conformist]

Can't say I'm happy with the aesthetics of the CivIV screens - too much CivIIIesque happy toyland feel - but I don't think it'll be very hard to tell the situation at a glance. It'll just be getting used to it.

[Adm.Naismith]

Re: Civ IV artwork has some real problems

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The landscapes are very busy - this tiring for the eyes - and a problem for quickly finding units, resources etc.

You have a point about user interface, still it seems we can modify the map to a very schematic view from the top, ala Civ 1. I'll wait more info about it.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The sprites are way too big - they need to be more in proportion to the landscape - they just look like giants now, and rather ridiculous

I have the feeling the "giant effect" is collateral to unrelated zoom level: you zoom in/out the map, but units doesn't resize properly.
Maybe it happens because the graphic work is still in progress, maybe it is so by design: I hope for the former, still this is not a showstopper for me.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
The cities are way too small - this game is about cities. The graphics for cities should give a sense of their wealth, power and military strength, even at a long view. It would also help if their underlying terrain was evident so defensive strength could be quickly calculated. When you look at a group of cities you should be able to easily see which is powerful and which is not.

IIRC there was an old CivIII suggestion to show the city as enlarged on the map, to fill with suburbs every worked tile. Current mix of animated worked tiles and buildings on the main map, could be a balanced approach; IMHO to judge it we need to see more well developed map (usually modern time game), to evaluate how filled up they became. You know: net of roads and RRs, irrigated and mined everywhere... any graphic modder know how a nice single, alternative tile, can became a mess at end game.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
If you want that "one more turn feel", players have to be comfortable looking at their monitor for long periods. After the first game or 2 noone cares what the freakin mountains look like or how many loops there are on the rivers, as long as they easy to identify and look at. You want to build something beautiful by your civ, not the underlying terrain.

Well, a mix of both seems to me less a "concrete carpet" than your "city over everything", approach Maybe it's my fault.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Jeez I hope the world map scrolls this time and there are adequate zooms. I couldn't believe civ 3 wouldn't recentre so you could look at the map from different angles the way civ 1 and 2 did - what a giant leap backwards that was.

I didn't used to zoom around in Civ 1 and 2, nor to change angles. My bad. I liked to move on SMAC map, but it used a kind of 3D terrain, with "line of sight" needs. As far as I have seen on the preview clip Civ IV scrolls and zoom quite well, so it seems to me you are too much worried.

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Probably too late now.

For an engine change? You can bet on it, it's late.
For some polishing of the graphics? Some can be in final development, but I think we can't have too much "last months changes", because they are probably already using the graphic (human) resources to add some scenary or "conquest" custom units, resources and environment, or wonder movies.

Don't worry, IMHO there are some very good modders around here that can offer some different set of graphics in a couple of months.

[ThaddeusAlexander]

I understand the minimalist view on Civ ... I mean, the game has that top-down feature that I'm sure, with some simple mods, can make the game look basically like Civ1

For me, I like the graphics that I've seen. I'm very casual and visual when it comes to games, and I must admit that if the game isn't pleasing to me, then I simply can't get into it. For me, Civ4 looks good.

Heck I just bought a new computer and I can't wait to run Civ4 with all the bells and whistles at the highest quality possible.

But like I said, I'm casual. I enjoy sitting back and looking at a beautiful map, not rushing and number crunching. I know some people love to crunch numbers and thats fine. I think the key to Civ games is places like Apolyton and CFC where people can grab the mods that'll make the game more personalized.

Thank God civ has such a wonderful community.

Cheers

[Alexander's Horse]

some important gameplay features are things like being able to measure distances easily and from different angles and zooms

spatial relations between different parts of the map - how far is that war from your capital

being able to assess size and difficulty of task at a glance

being able to find things easily

having a map where you can centre on other civs not have them perpetually wrapped over the edges in the global view

easy to identify city sites and defensive choke points

sprites that don't get lost in the visual clutter so you forget to use or move them if say fortified - embarrassing to find you left that legion on that hill for 600 years

oceans should feel like oceans so the sprites for ships should be small enough to make a crossing look like an epic journey

I don't think civ has ever got deserts right as a barrier to movement/development, which is what they are

Cities in disorder and celebrating should be clear

It should be clear why something is happening in the game by looking at the map

The eye should be drawn to the most crucial things you need to address.

as many features as possible should be able to be switched off


these are all satisfying visual aids and features for gameplay

[Lancer]

It might be good to make an enemy ship invisible unless it is in the same square as your ship. Might be hard to implement, but it would make the oceans bigger. Way too small in all the early civ games.

[Vince278]

That would be like making the fog of war apply to units as well as the map.

[Last Conformist]

I don't think civ has ever got deserts right as a barrier to movement/development, which is what they are

A simple beginning to that might be having units in deserts (and jungle) randomly lose HP (or just die, in the case of non-combat units), unless on a road.

[Aphex_Twin2]

I keep wondering if Civ 4 will be moddable at the level of game interface. One old-time dream would be to make a Civ3-like game (what C4 will likely be) with Civ2 interface (and possibly some improvements). Civ games are extremely long lasting so why hog system resources with JUST the game? This is what put me off Civ3 and I suspect will do the same with Civ4. I liked the extra features, but it was SO slow and bloated. I don't mean that because it ate into system resources (which was a more minor issue), but you could be surfing the web, doing work, listening to music and have a piece of civ stacked in a window somewhere back with Civ2.

[Mace]

I don't think ANYONE here is "b***ing, moaning, or complaining". I think a valid point was brought up, and it's being discussed...

I tend to agree that the screens, even the new ones, look a little cluttered, but we'll just have to wait and see. I've seen worse in these types of games...

[Alexander's Horse]

thanks Mace - the Firaxis team has paid attention to player feedback in the past too

[mhkhosravi]

and a real problem is that Scimitar is not a good flag for persians. it is arabs symbol, persians symbol is a lion and sun, or a flying horse (Homa)
correct this pleaseeee

[Vince278]

Neither of which is on the Iranian flag.

[AeonOfTime]

@mace: I tend to agree that the screens, even the new ones, look a little cluttered, but we'll just have to wait and see

I couldn't agree more.

[Shigga]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
some important gameplay features are things like being able to measure distances easily and from different angles and zooms

[...]

Well I for one count on the mighty Strg+G grid feature. There's no reason they should have dropped it, and even if it does not solve the problems you describe it will definitely diminish some of them.