Historical Mismatches

[mhkhosravi]

I sujjest that to say any historical mismaches before the game releases.
for example the scimitar is not good for Persian culture , because it is flag of saudi arabia, irans flag was always a Lion (For more than 1000 years).
and also I think that some persian things is mistakes with arab cultures.
iranians are muslim but they are persians and maybe persian culture had some similarities after islam but they are totally different,
for example see PERSEPOLIS images to see the architecture of persia, and I think this distinguishes similarities of Persians and Arabs.
(for example babylons were arabs and they were under territory of Persia , but they are different .)

[Solver]

In Civ3 at least, Persians and Arabs were separate civs. They're also both known to be in Civ4, so it's hardly that Persians are made to be arabs.

[Vince278]

I knew a few Iranians and they considered themselves Persian. Also, don't EVER call them Arab within their hearing.

[DarkCloud]

Well that's because they're not Arabs- they're a distinct ethnic group- like the Kurds or Turkmen.

[Odin]

Originally posted by DarkCloud
Well that's because they're not Arabs- they're a distinct ethnic group- like the Kurds or Turkmen.

Yep, Persians and Kurds are Indo-Europeans, Arabs are Semites.

[KyuuA4]

And analogously speaking, they're ALL MIddle Eastern -- just like saying German and French are both European.

[mhkhosravi]

well I see people here with well historical knowledge ,Solver,DarkCloud,Odin,...

historical mismatches about Persian Empire.
I wanted to see some hakhamaneshian Soldiers in the persia empire , but it is only after islam soldiers, (all islamic empire had unique dresses that were something between iranian soldiers and arabs)
but if it have some hakhamaneshian soldiers it would be alot better.
for example the war between alexander the great and Dariush e kabir , that Ariu barzan the iranian leader of army defeated alexanderia many times and at last he defeats because of spies and ... (I dont know details )
and there are many evidences about dresses of iranian soldiers in anciant historical wars between Persia and Rome.and also the war that Persian releases Juda people from territory and torture of babylons.(and some correlation in history between Iran and Israel).

I think it is not too bad to have some after islam soldiers, because after islam , the most leaders of armies was iranian(persian) leaders.(The remaining army from Persia empire and structure of wars from before islam).
but the true persia is that we see in history between 2500 years ago till Islam.
but the scimitar is only for arabs , we never used a scimitar as a symbol , our symbols were always a Lion and a sun . (and three colors of green , white and red)

[molly bloom]

A Darius relief:

[Wernazuma III]

An old Persian flag, 18th century:



Another one from the 19th century:


And finally, an alleged flag from the late 19th century, this time without lion:

[mhkhosravi]

yes that is it molly bloom,a Persian Soldier ,
And that is Persian Flag Wernazuma III,
scimitar is for arabs.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH
but how can we say these to Civ4 programmers ?

[GeoModder]

Keep in mind that thousands of years ago 'flags' as we are used to today, didn't exist. The oldest use of a sort of standard that I can remember, is the wolf of the Roman Empire. There will be older of course, but can't come up with one out of my head.

[mhkhosravi]

Hello GeoModder,

if we want to seek the oldest flag in a culture , I know Cyrus the great, King (Shah) of Persia, that his flag was a white square with a black square in it (or something like this).
This became Flag of Persia from more than 2500 years ago.
It is the oldest flag that I know.
but in a game , symbol of a country will become az its flag.
symbols of persia were always a lion , A sun , and some times we see Homa (A flying horse). that it became Persians flag later.
and ofcourse never a scimitar were Persians Flag or symbol !!!
I say it is not in persian culture , it is arabs symbol, as you see in saudi arabia Flag now! there were no holly thinking about scimitar in Persian culture,always Lion and Sun (because sun was holly to Persians and Lion was symbol of being brave and merciful to homeland and angry to enemies).

there are many meaningfull and realy historical symbols in persian empire, all Persians will be wondered when they see the scimitar as their flag.

that is it all.

[molly bloom]

Yes, I was going to suggest either the lion rampant, or one of the the seated lions that you can see in the Achaemenid palaces.

The winged horse is featured on the cover of an old book on Iranian history that I have.

It seems strange for the game to concentrate on the Islamic history of Iran when its culture is much older - but I suppose its partly due to the role Iranian civilization played in 'civilizing' the Arab world after the Islamic conquest.

I can't think of a symbol that particularly symbolizes the Safavids, for instance- though I suppose the Peacock Throne might suffice.

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Vince278
I knew a few Iranians and they considered themselves Persian. Also, don't EVER call them Arab within their hearing.

I have several Persian friends - to quote Joe:
"the homelands of my people happens to be a country known as Iran at this time in history. that may change gain soon enough!"

[mhkhosravi]

I dont have any problem with arabs.
the problem is difference between them.
Persians are people who came from north of earth to the land named persia, and arabs were in current "Beino nahrain(Iraq)".
the Persians race named "ARIA" and because of that now the name of persia is Iran.(Arian)
the language and culture of them were really different and after islam when iranians became Muslim, the Empire of Persia became Empire of Muslims , and ARABS!
because of that many similarities became in empire of persia and arabs common living ways.

arabs attacked to Europe with persian army leadership (the thing that never our kings do that way, they didnt want europe, they wanted robust and redundant Power for Persia not in short time)
but arabs wanted to preach islam in that way.
I dont want to speak about politics.
but Persia and Arabs are different races. Arabs were people lived in babylon that finaly became under territory of persia.(2500 years ago)

if the Civ4 target is to distinguish babylon (arabs) from Persia, they must do this according to the history.