Does Civ4 required Internet?

[Reader81]

Originally posted by Platypus Rex
without internet how does one post here

it's okay to read and post web and e-mail with dail-up but it's is not ok to download 5 mb at least, multiplayer and ired internet required to play for dail-up. Even Guild Wars work with dail-up but it's taken long time as Stronghold 2 loading, patch, even couldn't play PvP with thats.

[Provost Harrison]

Re: Does Civ4 required Internet?

Originally posted by Reader81
I hope not because I have Wireless that give me 1 Mbps to 36 Mbps even Guild Wars work well on 56Mbps but it's dont give me clear PvP, so I rather not have required a internet, I have ton fun playing with A.I Civ2 to Civ3, I'm looking forward this Civ4 if not required internet. I knew no one play PC game in my home town so that's why I'm play with A.I all myselt, poor me! : )

You have a US flag, but I'm not convinced you're from the English-speaking world

[Reader81]

I'm born in USA but it's my second English My first one is America Sign Language, since I' hard of hearing, my left ear full of deaf.

[Terra Nullius]

eloquent, if not grammatically perfect!

without internet how does one post here

sire, our workers have completed a great wonder,..

the internet cafe

[CanuckSoldier]

Civ is a SP game, and so it should stay

Well Solver, I think we will have to agree to disagree. It's clear from the statements from Firaxis that the SP, MP and Modders are equal partners in the development of CIV. One is not more important or less so than the others. It seems that Soren certainly is putting a effort into the CIV AI so that the SP community has a better gaming experience with CIV than they did with C3C. But also that they want MP to simply work for everyone regardless of your computer experience, and that the game Mod SDK be a powerful tool for the modding community.

I certainly hope that the first Civ game to feature MP OOTB ushers in a new era for the MP community, which doesn't take away at all from the SP gameplay.

Your statement I think is true of Civ1/2/3 for sure, but I think its a little too polarized for the era we are close to entering.

Cheers CS

[Addled Platypus]

Originally posted by lebensraum
eloquent, if not grammatically perfect!


sire, our workers have completed a great wonder,..

the internet cafe

now there is a thought for Civ5

[Solver]

CanuckSoldier - I do actually agree with you. I also want MP out of the box. It does, after all, seem natural for a 2005 game. However, whatever the developers say, each game is better built for either SP or MP. RTS games are better for MP, for instance. Civ4, even if it has good MP (which I hope it will) will still be a SP-oriented game, mainly because of the very basic Civ concept. The Civ concept is what makes Civ a game where you take your time, and what ultimately makes games take 20+ hours. I think it's pretty clear that it's better suited for SP than MP where sessions are shorter. Yes, there can be other modes, including PBEM and quicker play, but the heart of Civ will lie in SP.

[CanuckSoldier]

Well I personally think that "Real Time Strategy" is the biggest oxymoron ever invented! While I'm sure that there is a certain amount of coding done to satify the requirements of both the MP and SP game, they are not inherently mutually exclusive. I've played every version of Civ MP developed, CivNet, Civ2MGE, PTW and C3C, as well as played them in SP.

You imply that because MP games tend to be shorter that there is not as much strategy, that is far from the facts. We may not have time every turn to sift threw the advisor screens, but there is plently of time for real strategy in MP games. The current MP community plays the whole gammit of game types from 2 hour 1 city elim games to 20 hour multi-session Epic games, and even a strong PBEM section. I don't see this changing with CIV only getting even more varied.

We seemed to have done very well as a Ladder team in the C3C ISDG semi finals for a group of people that don't get the time to strategize too much :-P

We can discuss what the "heart of Civ" is for ever as that is subjective to the extreme. The heart of Civ is what ever each individual player wants it to be, and I'm sure that as a business case Firaxis wants CIV to be a game for every strategy enthusiast.

But for right now there's 1100 people actively playing C3C MP on Civ3players Ladder alone(this doesn't count the casual MP players either) that are off the opinion that the MP game is Civilization.

So I guess mileage varies depending on your perpective.

CS

[Kuciwalker]

Well I personally think that "Real Time Strategy" is the biggest oxymoron ever invented!

You'd be wrong. Real time strategy games are strategic games - both clickfest RTS and Paradox-like RTS.

[Addled Platypus]

[SIZE=1]

So I guess mileage varies depending on your perpective.

CS

Well said

[Modo44]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Real time strategy games are strategic games - both clickfest RTS and Paradox-like RTS.

Yes, they are. But the problem with Starcraft-like RTS is that the strategy needs to be thought through before the game. What you do once it starts, is executing strategy and using tactics, which does not require much thinking by itself. This is like blitz chess — fun for some, but not really on masters' list of favourite games.

[Solver]

Well I personally think that "Real Time Strategy" is the biggest oxymoron ever invented!

Heh... good point. Then again, those games ARE strategic compared to, say, online shooters. But it's clear that they're not really strategy games. No one who has played Civ or any TBS will say that RTS games are truly strategic. Yes, they require you know some tactics, unit strengths and weaknesses and general economic strategies, but there's little strategy involved, of course.

You imply that because MP games tend to be shorter that there is not as much strategy, that is far from the facts. We may not have time every turn to sift threw the advisor screens, but there is plently of time for real strategy in MP games. The current MP community plays the whole gammit of game types from 2 hour 1 city elim games to 20 hour multi-session Epic games, and even a strong PBEM section. I don't see this changing with CIV only getting even more varied.

I was saying that there isn't an ability to use all the excessive strategy in an online game. Of course, the online community typically plays other game types, such as elimination, as you mention, which is quite a different game. Mutli-session epic games are good, though, and I hope Civ4 will have them fine. And PBEM, although specific, is a very good game type - allows for the best of everything. You can take as long with your turns as you like, there's no hassle of having 6 people available at the same time, and you can play any game mode.

We can discuss what the "heart of Civ" is for ever as that is subjective to the extreme. The heart of Civ is what ever each individual player wants it to be, and I'm sure that as a business case Firaxis wants CIV to be a game for every strategy enthusiast.

Agreed. It's a shame, though, that Civ4 will never sell as many copies as, say, AoE3, which has much worse SP-MP balance than Civ4, MP being good, but the SP mode rather dull. However, again, I'm all for it if Civ4 turns out to be a viable MP game out of the box.

But for right now there's 1100 people actively playing C3C MP on Civ3players Ladder alone(this doesn't count the casual MP players either) that are off the opinion that the MP game is Civilization.

Out of curiosity - how many of these people play standard games (epic), and how many play elimination/regicide?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Modo44
Yes, they are. But the problem with Starcraft-like RTS is that the strategy needs to be thought through before the game. What you do once it starts, is executing strategy and using tactics, which does not require much thinking by itself. This is like blitz chess — fun for some, but not really on masters' list of favourite games.

Not true. You have to respond - strategically - to enemy actions, in addition to tactics.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Solver

Well I personally think that "Real Time Strategy" is the biggest oxymoron ever invented!

Heh... good point. Then again, those games ARE strategic compared to, say, online shooters. But it's clear that they're not really strategy games. No one who has played Civ or any TBS will say that RTS games are truly strategic. Yes, they require you know some tactics, unit strengths and weaknesses and general economic strategies, but there's little strategy involved, of course.

No, you're completely off. RTS "clickfests" (to distinguish them from games like EU and HOI, which are RTS but incontrovertibly strategy games) are strategic because they involve - in fact, are focused primarily on - gathering and protecting resources to fuel future conflicts. They are truly strategic. They would only become nonstrategic if you had a set amount of forces at the beginning of each battle.

[CanuckSoldier]

Well I'm going to stay out of the RTS detailed arguement here. But IMHO any game that requires fast reflects as a designed part of the gameplay is not a true strategy game, although the makers may have designed some strategy elements to the game. But this is another "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" thing.

Unfortunately, the software/service we have chosen to run Civ3players on, Cases/myleague, doesn't distinguish between types of games, just win/losses.

But in my estimate, the average random game is about 3-4 hours, with Epics being played by 20% of the ladder, and PBEM games at about the same 20%.

The big things keeping a 3 year old game running in MP are clan games and mods/scenarios, such as QuickCiv, MPT, Blinded by Science, Future/Regicide, Medival and industrial starts, and ofcourse the standard ancient games. All can be played a "free for alls" or teamers, or our "cton games" which is a ffa with no diplomacy or alliances allowed, named after a member that invented the format.

I'm not sure what things are keeping the SP game moving, but I for one can not wait for CIV, we are losing a large percentage of vets to bordom with this old game.

CS