Eras in Civ4?

[Ijuin]

I agree that Gunpowder should probably be necesary for the Industrial Age. As for Combustion needed for the Modern Age, I was under the impression that Combustion was required to get Electronics via Combustion-->Mass Production-->Electronics. I might be wrong though.

[lajzar]

Has it occurred to you that the civ3 tree is broken? Balance questionbs aside, there isn't really any causal relationship between the discovery of combustion and electronics.

[Naokaukodem]

don't have a clue

[Max Sinister]

I never liked the fact that many techs in civ3 don't do anything useful, like steel. They're only required for other techs.

[TheLoneAmigo]

Most of the arguments here against Eras are just arguments against the Tech Tree system. Why do I need to research Iron Working to discover Construction? The Maya and Aztecs built massive structures without Iron. Why do I need monotheism for Democracy? There's a thousand and one problems with the Tech Tree, and I feel that something like that is unavoidable in cIV.

I like the Era system. It divides the tech tree into easy, managable chunks, and allows me to think "to get tanks fast, I need to work out how to refine oil", rather than making me think "okay, to get tanks fast, I need to research Pottery".

Plus, I love having the tech tree displayed on the computer. Unfolding the tech tree during the game is not fun, and since I always lose those sheets. (except the Alpha Centauri one. I have that hung on my wall in the computer room, just because it looks cool.)

[Ljube]

Eras were present in civ from the start. In civ2 for instance, citizens and cities change their appearance when you research both philosophy and invention (renaissance), then again when you research industrialisation (industrial) and finally when you research automobile (modern).


I think the tech tree should be more flexible and more logical (not requiring iron working for construction for instance). And you should have about 4 terminal techs in each era and be able to advance to the next age when you research 2 of them. This would allow different paths of development including builder and warmonger beelines which characterised civ2.

[Drachasor]

The problem with Eras is that they are inherently unrealistic, and if you have an Era system like that in Civ3, then you can't split up military tech and infrastructure tech that much. If you try to do two seperate lines, then when you get to the next age you might get oddities when you can make musketmen without knowing how to work Iron, or get a Democracy without a Republic.

It needs to go back to the Civ2 style system, but show a tech tree display, and have arbitray pages, each showing an "Era." You can then scroll further to the right and see the next era and what you need for the individual Techs there. Perhaps there should be markers on the techs you need to change your city appearence...maybe 3-4 takes per "Era" and you need any two?

-Drachasor

[Max Sinister]

In the good old 1st Civ, the cities (in the city view, if you conquered a city or your folks revolted or celebrated, or when you completed a new building) were gradually developing: During the progress from Antique to Medieval, most houses in the city view were simple huts, but there already was one or another medieval city house among them... ok, it's just eye candy, and not very important, but still... maybe some programmer can dig up the code for it and tweak it...

[Vince278]

There are eras in Civ3 already: they're called ages (in the tech tree). Eras in Civ4 sound more like Conquests in that they are more localized. Perhaps the Eras will be more like a combo of Ages and Conquests.

I voted no but I'm actually indifferent to the idea. I just hope the grand epic games are not affected.

[Sandman]

No.

Eras turn the tech tree into a tech tickbox. Ridiculous tech disparities can be eliminated by intelligent design, rather than the artificial restriction of eras.

[Tassadar500]

It looks like most people want to keep the eras anyway.

[Enigma_Nova]

Some interesting discussion.

I'm against the idea of fixed eras. Better (IMO) to restructure the tech restrictions.
It shouldn't be too hard to implement an OR prerequisite (as opposed to the AND prerequesities we all know and love),
which could in a way make 'ages'.

With enough OR clauses (sensible OR clauses) you could rig it so that a majority of techs in one region of the tech tree are needed to get a decent amount in the next region.

There wouldn't be eras, but you wouldn't be able to get GeneEng before Electro.

[lajzar]

Era effects:

- Prevent beelining (causes anachronisms so bad)
- change graphics / sound interface (can be done with techs)
- trigger event for free tech for scientific civ
- trigger event for barbarian horde (unrealistic)

The free tech for scientific civ is a bit weak anyway. I'd replace it with a research bonus similar to the agricultural trait food bonus.

The last one makes no sense from a causality pov - barbarians don't watch your scientists carefully, waiting for you to discover that last era tech before attaacking en masse. They do it as and when they feel like it. Barbarian hordes should be random, something like civ2 style.

For those who like the presentation value of the era system, have you had a look at test of time? That one dynamically made a graphical tech tree based on the rules.txt file. ok, it didnt show the entire tree in one go, but it showed enough to see the immediate relationships clearly.

[Enigma_Nova]

It is a fantasy world, after all. Why worry about so many Anachronisms?
They just make it a little more fun to see really awry civilisations.

[Vince278]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
It is a fantasy world, after all. Why worry about so many Anachronisms?

Fantasy world yes, but I'd like to see enough realism in all elements of the game so it would be easier to relate to and therefore more fun (i.e. its more fun to crush the country of your choice rather than a fantasy land).