Eras in Civ4?

[LDiCesare]

Thinking about it in a role-play or realism point of view... you would research what is available to you now, rather than in order to get something 1000 years from now.

Galciv (unpatched) didn't let you see the tech tree. Almost everyone ranted against that feature, so Brad Wardell reluctantly put something of a tech tree viewer in (only hyperlinks, not a global view).

If the strong reason for having eras is the display of the tech tree, then go ahead Firaxis, and make them a purely cosmetic thing.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Fosse
Not completely related... Having the whole tech tree available to look at as part of the game always was jolting to me. It never sat well.

Thinking about it in a role-play or realism point of view... you would research what is available to you now, rather than in order to get something 1000 years from now.

I know, I know... we would all plan ahead in previous games, and someone would make an Excel file with the tree, etc. Besides, I'm a little off topic. *sigh*

Happy New Year's.

The problem with that is, after one or two games you'll know the tech tree. Plus, you have the pedia, right? There's no point denying basic game information to the player, because the player will figure it out quickly anyways, and be pissed at not having a quick reference.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by skywalker
The problem with that is, after one or two games you'll know the tech tree. Plus, you have the pedia, right? There's no point denying basic game information to the player, because the player will figure it out quickly anyways, and be pissed at not having a quick reference.

Exactly!

This was my problem with the absence of an "intelligence advisor" in Civ3, one that sums up all the info already available about other Civs in a convenient screen.

[Fosse]

*sigh* I know... I didn't even bring up the "No visible tech tree" as a request, just a musing. Certainly my thoughts were the same as the designers of GalCiv which led them to leave it out originally... and just like theirs mine completely ignored the fact that players want to know what is going on.

It served nothing except to let me vent and to push this thread off topic!

[Brent]

Separate Ancient Trees for Culture Groups

The main good thing about the era system in my point of view is that it could be changed so in the ancient age different culture groups could have their own trees. All civs in one group could have basically the same ancient tree, but there could be one or two differences for each civ in the group. There could also be distinction between civs that actually exist in a particular age and those which do not.

Taking Different Directions

Mostly I do not like Eras. I want to be able to favor one field over another to a greater degree than in Civ2. I want the technologies of those considered primative to be good competition in the game even though they are not so in the real world.

Music

I like era- specific music.

Showing the Tree

Instead of eras that you can divide so you can see the whole thing on one screen, bring back the foldout poster that comes in the box.

Realism Versus Fun

Some things are not meant to be realistic. You are supposed to be able to control things better than in real life. Your units obey you unquestioningly. When you've played before, you know more than if you are a ruler in real life. This cannot be changed. It is all right to know the tech tree.

[Fosse]

Originally posted by Brent
Separate Ancient Trees for Culture Groups

The main good thing about the era system in my point of view is that it could be changed so in the ancient age different culture groups could have their own trees. All civs in one group could have basically the same ancient tree, but there could be one or two differences for each civ in the group. There could also be distinction between civs that actually exist in a particular age and those which do not.

But you could just design different tech trees for differnt civs or culture groups without eras. I think that this fails the litmus test LDiCesare gave us earlier.

The other points you bring up for eras are also easily done wihtout them, such as music.

Showing the Tree

Instead of eras that you can divide so you can see the whole thing on one screen, bring back the foldout poster that comes in the box.

Hear, hear!

[Kuciwalker]

king Different Directions

Mostly I do not like Eras. I want to be able to favor one field over another to a greater degree than in Civ2. I want the technologies of those considered primative to be good competition in the game even though they are not so in the real world.

MORE than in C2? You realize you could research genetic engineering before electronics in C2, right?

[TheBirdMan]

Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior
We could make a pretty cool hybrid system. How does this sound?

1. The science advisor looks the same, but instead of 4 screens, you can scroll horizontally to reveal more of the tech tree.

2. Dotted lines are drawn where the new eras come. However, the techs from one age are regular prerequisites for the techs from the next. For example, Flight is required for Rocketry, but not Ecology.

3. Once you have as many techs from the next age as you are missing from your current age, you advance to the next era, city art changes, leaderheads get new outfits, etc. For example, a civ missing three ancient techs that knows three medieval techs will be in the medieval era. However, a civ missing two ancient techs that only knows one medieval tech will still be in the ancient era.

What do you guys think of this?

I like that..... or something like that.

I can't remember how many times I have felt like this

just because the advance I expected/needed/wanted - and most important, should be possible from the sciencelevel my civ had - didn't show up in the list. Forcing me to go for another more-or-less useless advance.

[LDiCesare]

1. The science advisor looks the same, but instead of 4 screens, you can scroll horizontally to reveal more of the tech tree.

2. Dotted lines are drawn where the new eras come. However, the techs from one age are regular prerequisites for the techs from the next. For example, Flight is required for Rocketry, but not Ecology.

Scrolling is not as pleasant as viewing a next page.
Showing the last 3 techs and the next 3 techs available (in depth) from where one is on a page would probably be ebough to let the player make mid-to-long-term choices in what they want to research next, while a different, more static view could be used for the civilopedia.

If you reduce eras to dots on the tech tree, I feel like having these.

[Didymus]

Of course we need eras. No one has ever made a full-history tech tree that wasn't seriously abusable. If you want you can put all the techs in one age, like many Conquests scenarios do. (Which makes sense, since the scenarios often only covers one age.)

[Lord_Davinator]

space-time is the biggest fabrication of western civilization

[Max Sinister]

Do you mean Einstein's discovery that space and time form a continuum or what? Of course, we could add the theory of relativity to the tech tree... as a prereq for nukes (E = mc²)

[kermit_the_frog]

yes, but add a future eara too

[Ijuin]

I think that the chief problem with eras as they are implemented is that the majority of techs within an era are required before you can advance to the next one. The simplest solution, then, would be to reduce the number of techs that are needed for era advancement.

For example, to advance to the Medieval Age, I think you should need to have Philosophy, one government other than Despotism, and 25% of all other ancient-age techs.

Then, the techs you can research in the Medieval Age depend on you having the specific prerequisites for that tech. For example, to research Engineering you would have to have Construction, and to research Monotheism, you would have to have Polytheism (or Mysticism if you want to insist that a society can go from having no concept of gods straight to a Monotheistic religion).

To enter the Industrial Age, you would need Navigation and the Printing Press, and to enter the Modern Age you would need Electronics (since most of the Modern Age advances are either computer-based or require computers for their development).

[Max Sinister]

I'd say Industrial Age also requires gunpowder and maybe the steam machine (unless you count the latter as an industrial progress, of course). Modern Age may require combustion, for cars and power plants.