[Mod] NORMAL game pace: SLOWER TECH but more normal unit building! (Other fixes too)

[Gikkuriman]

Glad to be of service, Dearmad.

[Dr. Broom]

You probably just had a lot of scientists, they give +3 research points each per turn so with a lot of cities it would be possible to research this fast. This is especially true if you made many great scientists into super specialists.

[Quin007]

As for Epic games... It would be great if you could somehow spark up the beginning periods of the game while slowing down the later. Maybe starting techs should be SLIGHTLY (to keep game balance) cheaper, while maybe later should be just a little more expensive. In any way, it would be great if the beginning periods (eras) of the game would be somehow more lively.

So, basic techs should be slightly cheaper. Iron working should cost more, in that way the distinction between bronze and iron tools would be more visible.

BTW, is it possible to alter random map calculations? If I understand things as they are, every map consists of set number of diff. tiles. But currently these diff. tiles are randomly dispersed, so you end up with desert tiles next to jungles and plains... Would it be possible to alter random map generator so it would generate more balanced maps with desert, jungles, forests, plains,... AREA, not individual tiles. Further on, I think it would be a good idea to lower down movement speed in jungles and deserts.

[Stone-D]

I feel that humanity's ingenuity is the key here, but I have doubts it can be modded for. Basically, initial techs are fairly simple in reality. A club is a length of wood. A spear is a length of wood with a piece of flint tied to it. A chariot is a box with circular chunks of wood affixed to the side.

The point is, the idea's conception may have been brilliant, but the implementation is a a piece of cake. Triba A invents a spear, Tribe B gets the point pretty quick, no pun intended.

As history goes on and the complexity of technology increases, this rule clearly becomes less effective. The idea of using catgut for a bowstring instead of twine isn't going to appear without some experimentation.

So.

Upon the discovery of a tech, all civilizations who have not completed research on it will receive XX percent towards that tech. They get a higher percentage based on whether or not contact has been made, if they're on the same continent, have a trade route, etc.

As the eras progress, this effect will gradually drop to zero. The effect would be of speeding up initial techs, but in an interesting way, not forced.

Whaddaya think?

[Gikkuriman]

There is another thread on this board which discusses the problem of open borders.
Basically, the problem is that when you open your borders, the other civ can send his military units into your territory, and even attack another civ through your borders. The same can happen to you, of course. In the real world, if country A let country B's troops pass through to attack country C, country A would be implicated as an aggressor as well. Not in Civ IV. Opening borders allows this troublesome effect while still being necessary for trade and missionaries.
In that thread, someone suggests turning off open borders altogether, by disabling it in the tech that turns it on. I wouldn't mind doing so if non-military units could still enter. What I would like to see is military units made unable to enter even with open borders. Someone in the thread suggests a separate economic and military version of open borders, which I agree with.
I am not calling for this topic to be discussed here in detail of course, because that's for the original thread. I am summarizing and referring to this topic in hope that Dearmad or someone may be able to add some kind of fix to this mod, because that would be awesome.
Here is the original thread:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143296

[ghen]

I would like to suggest not adding the (1) resource trade blocker.. there are definite times when trading your only resource is needed. 1) if you need iron/coal whatever or 2) if an aggressive civ won't stop fighting you without the trade.

In my Noble game the AI was about 2 techs behind me. Concidering I gained 4 good cities because Astronomy led me to a new island I wouldn't change too much..

I thought up a new idea last night, how about adding a new form of wealth early in the game as either religious tithes or kingdom taxes? Maybe it would convert 15% of your hammers into gold, or in the latter's case add 1 unhappy face to the city.

Posting at 6:50AM takes about 2x as long for some reason now I'm late for work

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by ghen
I would like to suggest not adding the (1) resource trade blocker.. there are definite times when trading your only resource is needed. 1) if you need iron/coal whatever or 2) if an aggressive civ won't stop fighting you without the trade.

You don't seem to understand what the mod does. It does not stop you from trading your only resource. It simply stops singleton resources from showing up in the resource panel of the Foreign Advisor screen. If you want to trade the resource anyway, you still can.

Bh

[DavidClifton]

Originally posted by dearmad
So expect a change in EPIC length with the next release.

TELL ME any other fine tunings regarding EPIC game pace that you experienced as well, if you have some.

David Clifton:
What era (roughly) did tech start to come too quickly?

Dearmad, thanks for the opportunity to add feed-back to this great mod.

I'd say that the starting era is fine at the moment. I read in a previous thread that a poster wanted this era to be slightly accelerated, with which I would respectfully disagree. The starting era is nice and slow, and the pace means that (for example) chasing all of the religions means that you won't be able to catch up on the cheap techs quite so quickly. I like it the way it is, I have to say.

When things get too fast are after that starting era. The second and subsequent eras fly past, with no keeping up.

Suggestions

Keep the starting era the same as it is currently.

Double the length of research of subsequent era.

Triple the length of research in the final era: it really is absolutely trivial to acquire technology at the end of the game (even with a small number of cities, on a huge Epic map).


Thanks! I'm not alone in saying that we appreciate your hard work.


Toodles,

Penfold

[DavidClifton]

A general comment!

When you've changed the appearance of articles with various technologies, within the tech tree, some text may need to be modified to reflect that.

I am afraid that I cannot remember precise examples, but I remember thinking on more than one occassion that the text in the tech tree didn't reflect the changes that you'd made. For example, the tech tree text told me that one action/unit/building was now available, when in fact it had been made available with a different technology.

It's a small point, but it made relying on the tech tree a little tricky.

Also, I have lost the ability to train any missionaries of non-state religions. I remember that this was a side-effect of the "FAITH" mod, but recall seeing that you had removed that from the latest version (which I am running). Is this left in accidentally, or have I missed something obvious?


Toodles,

Penfold

[Quin007]

I didn't say that starting age should be accelerated, I said that it should be made more lively. I don't think it is great that you can build only one military unit, one improvement and one wonder for 40+ turns that represents 1000 years. Things weren't like that IRL, human history weren't so dull in that period you know.

[dearmad]

The early ages being more "lively:"
Actually I had had the same thought. My solution was to take as simple an approach as possible- I decreased the cost of units by 5 hammers or so until about the high middle ages. This *proportionally* makes the earliest units significantly cheaper (not workers or sttlers though) and then less and less cheaper until you hit the middle ages when everything seems to be about as lively as I would like it to be already.

This is in the current version I'm playing with but haven't put out yet as I wanted to see what it did first in a few games. So far I like it- it's more lively, but not like total chaos or anything. I ha d two good classical age wars go on with plenty of units.

DavidClifton:
Specific examples would help a lot- as the tech tree is *supposed* to be dynamic. And the changes I'm making are supposed to be picked up by it- AND the civ-pedia. When all is said and done though- critical text will get changed, just need to stabalize the mod a bit more before that stage.

I've put in even more general tech slow to the EPIC speed, plus I increased techs from about the mid-rennaisance to the end by a range of 20% to 35%, increasing in general as it gets later.

Gikkuriman:
I'll follow that thread. I like the idea of no military units passing through. If the AI doesn't get crippled by a change like that, it would be nice to add it I think. Sounds like an involved change, however- codingwise, I mean. For now I'd just like the bug fixed where they declare war and aren't cleared out of your terrain!

[Bhruic]

Originally posted by DavidClifton
Also, I have lost the ability to train any missionaries of non-state religions. I remember that this was a side-effect of the "FAITH" mod, but recall seeing that you had removed that from the latest version (which I am running). Is this left in accidentally, or have I missed something obvious?

That could be an effect of the XML caching. Try going to "C:\Documents and Settings\\Application Data\My Games\Civilization 4" and deleting the cache folder (where is the name you log into windows with).

Bh

[dearmad]

I'll check this out quickly, though. Make sure it isn't something I forgot.

[dearmad]

Oops... was still in there. Fixed.

[Fireb]

Very interesting. I'll check it out.

One question though, how does the rebalancing of eras affect civ balance (i.e. it would seem that an aggressive national trait with an early UU would benefit a lot more than the US or Germany)?