... by killing a whole bunch of people (Muslim, Christian, Jew, other) who had nothing to do with the attacks on Christians?
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post...
As for Crusaders - it depends on your position concerning war and self defense. The Catholic church would argue it is not a sin to fight to protect other Christians who had been attacked by Muslims.Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"
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by killing a whole bunch of people (Muslim, Christian, Jew, other) who had nothing to do with the attacks on Christians?Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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In which case the catholic church would deliberately omit the crusades on european soil, fought against other christians (Albigensian crusade) or against pagans (for example the north east german pagan tribes at the baltic coast)Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostLike at Tours, eh?
and surely has absolutely nothing to do with the european crusades against the cathars and pagansTamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"
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If you refer to Karl Martell against the Muslims, I wonder why you refer to it ... it happened centuries before the european crusades, was no crusade by itself ...Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostYes, it was considered to be a crusade at the time, as was the Reconquista.
nor was it in any way supported by the church. It was a purely military campaign by the frankians to protect their lands.
And still the question remains what Tours or the reconquista have to do with the crusades against pagans and albigensians,
which clearly were ordered/supported by pope and church and weren't against muslims at allTamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"
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Originally posted by Kidicious View PostWe seem to have two schools of thought here on Catholicism, the BK School and the Ming School. I probably should have written the Ming school first since no one really thinks BK is a real catholic except Nikolai and I haven't seen him around lately.
Anyway, my question is what if a child molester priest went to Purgatory. Could another catholic pray him into Heaven?When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."
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I disagree
as the church wasn't involved into the military campaign at all ... neither did the pope order it/call upon the christians to support it
Here's a nickel, go read a history book sometime. Yes, the Catholic church at the time backed Martel, which is also why they crowned Charlemagne Emperor.Last edited by Ben Kenobi; June 5, 2016, 04:03.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostWell isn't *that* precious.
Which is why Pope Gregory III requested that Charles Martel become the defender of the Holy See?
Here's a nickel, read a history book sometime.
You see
Rewarding a military leader after a certain battle/war (as with Kart Martell) isn't the same as supporting a war from the beginning on (and telling everyone that he would get indulgence from all of his sins, if he takes part in the war).Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"
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Rewarding a military leader after a certain battle/war (as with Kart Martell) isn't the same as supporting a war from the beginning on (and telling everyone that he would get indulgence from all of his sins, if he takes part in the war).Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostWhich is why the Caliph ordered the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in 1009, touching off the First Crusade?
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... and that excuses killing a whole bunch of people (Muslim, Christian, Jew, other) who had nothing to do with the attacks on Christians ... how?
Destroying the black mosque would be a measured response to the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostThis is a concession that ever battle fought against Islam after Tours was part of the Crusades.
That's clearly the case with the Albigensian crusade, where Innocent III ordered the king of france to crusade against the Cathars ... and which was supported/joined in by clerics (it was a papal legate/catholic abbot who was responsible for the massacre at Beziers, by telling the crusaders to "Kill them all, god will know his own" )
It can also be shown for several crusades against the european Pagans (for example the Wendish crusade, which was started by a papal bull, or the prussian crusade, started by Honorius III)
I don't see any call for a crusade in case of Tours or the early stages of the reconquista.
(also still, the war against the muslims doesn't excuse the crusades against fellow christians or pagans )Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"
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crusade is a war which was called for / started by the catholic church / the pope from the beginning on.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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