historical Jesus also a myth?

[Sava]

beautiful weather

yeah, if you like ass sweat

[DaShi]

Don't forget that Ben is an accused child molester.

[Sava]

for reals or just on poly?

[Ben Kenobi]

Don't forget that Ben is an accused child molester.

I've also received extradition requests from the People's republic of Dashi.

[DaShi]

for reals or just on poly?

For reals.

[Sava]

Hmmm. We should let the system do its job

[Bereta_Eder]

[Berzerker]

They tried to exterminate all the Jews when they were coming from the desert into what would be Israel. Jews who intended no malice to them.

They intended no malice to the people living on their promised land?

I've noticed this god seems incapable of avoiding collateral damage with all these "judgements". I'm paying for someone elses behavior whether its in god's own garden or his church.

On one hand I'm appalled anyone would worship such a god, but on the other that god reflects the harsh realities of nature better than my idealistic vision of righteousness. When ants and termites go to war the carnage resembles a WWI battlefield covered with dismembered corpses and a pungent odor from chemical warfare.

If thats nature's god then I shouldn't be surprised or disgusted by a god ordering genocide...

but I am

[Ben Kenobi]

They intended no malice to the people living on their promised land?

It wasn't where the Amalekites lived.

I've noticed this god seems incapable of avoiding collateral damage with all these "judgements". I'm paying for someone elses behavior whether its in god's own garden or his church.

Suck it up, statist. You're perfectly ok with forcing people to pay for your health care.

than my idealistic vision of righteousness.

One that is far more murderous and genocidal.

When ants and termites go to war the carnage resembles a WWI battlefield covered with dismembered corpses and a pungent odor from chemical warfare.

More have now died through abortion in America than worldwide military and civilian casualties in the second world war, combined.

If thats nature's god then I shouldn't be surprised or disgusted by a god ordering genocide...

I'm surprised it bothers you at all, seeing how the local abortion mill doesn't bother you.

[Kidlicious]

The problem is that a lot of things written in the gospels seem to be there to prove, that Yeshua is the jewish Messias.
For example the 2 genealogical trees, that he had discussions with the priests in the temple during his youth or that he rode through the gates of Jerusalem on a donkey.
(Not to forget the many accounts of wonders)

This also includes Jesus crucifixation (and subsequent resurrection)

What remains if we take everything away that can be explained by a desire of the author, to sell his audience that "his prophet" is the jewish Messiah?

Know that he was not a man born of wealth and power. He was offensive to people because of that. Christian faith is believing that he is the Messiah, despite this offense. So, it's not just "proving" he's the Messiah. It's not proof. It's believing he's the Messiah, despite the offense.

[Nikolai]

For reals.

This is no laughing issue. I get it, you guys don't like Ben. But this is just not acceptable.

[Kidlicious]

no. my argument is that it doesn't really matter whether or not there was a real jewish prophet called jesus, because the main part of his existence is mythical; that he is not a historical figure, but rather a universal one for man itself.

I don't think you understand the significance of His name, Emmanuel (God is with us). He was born a man. He suffered with us. He was persecuted with us. He was tempted with us. He is truly with us. He is one of us, yet He is the Son of God. A mythical Jesus is not with us.

[Kidlicious]

Of course not ... I mean the person who founded the religion or at least "make it international" (like Paulus)



I don´t challenge the existence of Megas Alexandros ... after all there are numerous sources, including roman and egyptian ones ... and we also know about much more sources which were used by the surviving texts but were lost (for example because of the destruction of the Alexandrian library [and Alexandria, the name of this city as well as numerous other ones, being a good hint at Alexander).
We also know that Caesar visited the tomb of Alexander. Not to forget the hellenic ptolemic dynasty of egyptian pharaos.

I would challenge Alexander being the son of Zeus or some other god of the greek pantheon however.



If a religious sect makes some claims about its prophet that cannot ne verified by independent means, then I am especially sceptic.
I don´t think about the greek historians or hellenism as a religious sect.

I am especially sceptic with regards to claims about supernatural deeds of people (extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence).
If 90% of the biography about a religions prophet contains supernatural stories and external sources (i.e. outside of the sect) about the existence of the prophet are (almost?) non existent, I am inclined to assume that the prophet may be mythological as well.
A good example of another mythological figure would be Artus Pendragon. A person with such a well fleshed out history and including existent places, that many people wouldn´t doubt that he really ruled Britain at one time in the past.
In truth however he may be a mixture of stories about several local rulers, which were strung together in order to create a biography of a single mystical king.




Well, at least Marc and John don´t mention it anywhere.

And I agree ... a lot rests on Yeshua not only being a jewish priest but also having done at least most of the supernatural things attributed to him.
But I also have to say that this also has to include the old testament.

One of the reasons why I don´t consider myself to be a christian anymore is, that I cannot consider the bible to be true ... aqnd if I consider the bible to be true, then it gives a very negative testament about god (Genocide on the Armalekites for example)

If you don't mind me asking, what do you believe now? All of us find things offensive in the Bible, but something in there made us believe in the first place. But it seems that you let the parts that offend you make you not believe that part which made you believe. Why should the part that offended you make you stop believing the part that made you believe in Jesus Christ?

[Berzerker]

It wasn't where the Amalekites lived.

Why were they invading their land?

Suck it up, statist. You're perfectly ok with forcing people to pay for your health care.

I'm not forcing anyone to pay for my health care, I pay for it myself. You want Congress to regulate every aspect of our lives affecting health because you're paying a medicare tax, thats damn near everything under the sun, Ben. It dont get more statist than that.

One that is far more murderous and genocidal.

Murder and genocide wouldn't exist if I designed creation

More have now died through abortion in America than worldwide military and civilian casualties in the second world war, combined.

Like I said, nature's god doesn't reflect my sense of morality

I'm surprised it bothers you at all, seeing how the local abortion mill doesn't bother you.

I'm more bothered by the god who created abortion, but a woman getting an abortion aint the same as "God" ordering genocide

[C0ckney]

I don't think you understand the significance of His name, Emmanuel (God is with us). He was born a man. He suffered with us. He was persecuted with us. He was tempted with us. He is truly with us. He is one of us, yet He is the Son of God. A mythical Jesus is not with us.

his name may vary according to the historical period and culture we are talking about. there are and have been many names for god and son of god, but they matter not. you yourself in this post are not talking about a historical figure, you're talking about a mythical, supernatural figure, who is with us today. historical figures are not with us today - no one talks with julius caesar before going to bed. no one feels his presence etc.