Humans Need Not Apply: Fast Food $15 Minimum Wage Strike Edition

[Ben Kenobi]

or a thousandth my taste.

Uh, you did porn. Taste? What taste?

[Ben Kenobi]

The only thing like having no income, is having no income.

Economically, setting a basic minimum income is the same as having no income for everyone who makes that much. It becomes the new floor.

People do different things with their income, including holding back on this or that in order to save, while the only thing they can do with no income (ultimately) is not spend.

The problem is that basic minimum income will be eaten up by inflation and rent will increase to the lowest floor to consume all the income provide. And then some. Then you've not only got people who can't survive on your 'basic minimum', you've also destroyed the people who weren't on public assistance who were earning that much in the first place. You've also removed incentives to seek living under that level too.

It's a terrible economic policy.

Also, I disagree with housing costs shooting up just based on BI.

Guarantee it will. It should seek a level somewhat higher than the basic minimum, because anyplace worth renting will still want to screen their clients. It'll also destroy prices in low income areas, as the COL is not the same. Paying someone a 'basic guaranteed income' in Manhattan, NY will have enormous negative implications in Manhattan Kansas.

Tell that to someone who's lived within their means all their lives and made sacrifices, that their savings are now worthless. They are going to be PISSED.

There are many different influences on housing cost, and the two biggest ones are the housing stock, and land cost. People set and accept different prices for reasons that may or may not be related to the money supply

Biggest one is money supply. You're increasing the money supply by an enormous amount. You're looking at 3 trillion a year.

by the way is neutral, since we are redistributing the money supply, not increasing it.

You are increasing the money supply.

For example, a small apartment will always rent for less than a larger apartment, all other things being equal, and more rural properties will always sell for less than more urban ones

Does your policy adjust for cost of living? No. This has an enormous effect on rural areas, and a negative one. Essentially if you pay people based on Manhattan wages and guarantee a 'basic minimum', you'll have to increase wages dramatically in these rural areas and COL will go up massively. People live in rural areas because they do not want to pay Manhattan prices. Why are you bringing Manhattan prices to them?

So, people will always have choices, even if that choice involves moving down or away.

If you inflict a 'basic minimum' there will be no place to move to.

The working poor folks end up benefiting with BI

No, they don't. They actually suffer the most when their jobs vanish. Unless the value of their work is enough to overcome the increased price of labor (which your fix would change), they would be out of a job.

the same way a retired veteran benefits from his pension while going on to work a civilian job

Pensions are not helping things right now, because the people who have them tend not to be the people who need them. Also - because they are unfunded and the only way to fund them is to raise taxes on younger people who don't have the money.

or everyone benefits when unemployment counts part time pay at 80% (or therabouts) when determining benefits. With BI not counting toward the flat tax, whatever they make they get to keep, without worrying about tripping income limits or entering new tax brackets (which do not work the way everyone thinks they do, but that is for another time).

Who's going to pay for a 3 trillion increase in the money supply? It's a terrible economic idea and I will oppose it forever. Basically, the reason the commies love it is that it destroys regional variations in the Cost of living.

BTW, this entire discussion is about a majority of people being "out of a job", poor or not. When, not if, that occurs, what will you do with all the people who will literally have no income?

As someone who has relocated to get away from ****ty economic policies, those people who cannot find employment where they are at will have to relocate to somewhere where their skills are in demand. .

Again - I've lived your problem - been out of work for three years - had to run my own business to make the bills and been well, well under the cutoff for income tax. According to your 'policy' people like me do not exist. Since I moved from '****ty economic area' life has improved.

Your policy would destroy my way of life here in Texas. Working, earning, saving money and keeping my fixed costs as low as possible.

[The Mad Monk]

Ben, I'm not reading that. I cannot stand line-by-line, it gives me headaches. Please use paragraphs.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, I'm not reading that. I cannot stand line-by-line, it gives me headaches. Please use paragraphs.

1. Your economic policy is ****ty.

a) It increases the money supply by about 3 trillion, depending on how much you guarantee. We don't have that money right now to pay for it.
b) It increases the money supply disproportionately across the united states.

a) is bad. b) is an incredibly bad economic policy. Need I go into why having a basic income that's the same in Manhattan Kansas as Manhattan NY is a bad idea?

[regexcellent]

Yeah, baking sheets will do that too, but broiler pans are usually made of sterner stuff. Did you use an actual broiler pan, or did you get a cake pan or cookie sheet and call it "good enough"?

It's this blued steel (I think it's blued? it's black colored) sheet with holes in it, which fits neatly in a tray-like pan thing for baking. The grease and fat drips through the holes into the pan.

It's pretty light, it might just be aluminum with a black finish.

To bring it back on topic: this machine thingy could probably cook burgers better than me.

edit: Ben has repeatedly mentioned MRT doing porn, I'm going to guess that that was actually just him taking some video of himself having sex with his girlfriend or something, BFD.

[Dinner]

They're over 400 miles away.

If it makes you feel better I'm broiling a couple steaks tonight. Medium-well of course. I hate it when it has a red center.

I was with you until you started whining about seeing pink in the center. Steak is supposed to be pink, buddy.

[The Mad Monk]

1. Your economic policy is ****ty.

a) It increases the money supply by about 3 trillion, depending on how much you guarantee. We don't have that money right now to pay for it.
b) It increases the money supply disproportionately across the united states.

a) is bad. b) is an incredibly bad economic policy. Need I go into why having a basic income that's the same in Manhattan Kansas as Manhattan NY is a bad idea?

How does it increase the money supply?

[Dinner]

Why are you humoring him?

[The Mad Monk]

It's this blued steel (I think it's blued? it's black colored) sheet with holes in it, which fits neatly in a tray-like pan thing for baking. The grease and fat drips through the holes into the pan.

It's pretty light, it might just be aluminum with a black finish.

To bring it back on topic: this machine thingy could probably cook burgers better than me.

edit: Ben has repeatedly mentioned MRT doing porn, I'm going to guess that that was actually just him taking some video of himself having sex with his girlfriend or something, BFD.

That sounds like it will do, but a heavier porcelain coated steel pan will last longer. Look at pans with that description on Amazon and check the reviews.

[The Mad Monk]

Why are you humoring him?

When have I ever treated him otherwise? He's a friend, same as you.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben has repeatedly mentioned MRT doing porn, I'm going to guess that that was actually just him taking some video of himself having sex with his girlfriend or something

Nope. MRT posted about doing porn and getting paid for it.

http://www.counterglow.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27443

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/130964-Well-thats-the-end-of-that?s=

[Ben Kenobi]

How does it increase the money supply?

What numbers are you proposing as the basic minimum? 10k per capita is 3 trillion and a rough back of the envelope number.

[Kidlicious]

Govt spending increases the money supply.

[Ben Kenobi]

If he's eliminating welfare and social security, depending on his numbers it could work out to be a net negative. 3 Trillion is a good back of the envelope number, fwiw, but it's worth remembering that together, it would be larger than welfare + social security. Also, there would be significant administration costs associated with the program.

[N35t0r]

Um, if you read his posts, you'd realize he'd take out welfare at least. Not that I'd expect you to understand such complicated things as compound sentences.