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  • Doing business in New York

    We've had a number of discussions about unions in this forum but I think this story about a particularly excellent restaurant which I enjoy here in Rochester pretty much sums up the issues surrounding them and why they shouldn't exist.



    So You Want To Do Business in New York?

    I’d like to share the story of my recent challenges with the New York State Labor Department.
    For my second Sticky Lips BBQ restaurant, I purchased a building that was the old Road House Grill on Jefferson Road. This is situated on property that is controlled by the Genesee Valley Regional Market Authority, which is a New York State Authority. I own the building but lease the land from the Authority.

    It took me a year and a half to build the new Sticky Lips BBQ Juke Joint, and it is a real showpiece. That took everything mentally, physically, and monetarily that I had. I did not use any state, local, or federal money to build it.
    Halfway through the project, I received a visit from the carpenters union, who was looking for work. I was nice to the guys, but told them that I had my own independent contractors, of whom many are my personal friends. I know that the construction industry has been slow, but being that mine was not a state or publicly funded job, I wondered why they would come to a small job like this. The Sticky Lips construction was relatively small compared to schools, hospitals, and public buildings that are usually associated with union jobs.
    Within two days after talking with the union reps, there was an OSHA inspector camped out across the street with a telephoto lens just waiting for an infraction to happen. After spooking the contractors, this slowed our progress for a while.
    About a month later the electrical union reps stopped by and were working for work. Once again, I said that I had my own guys and did not need their help. (I guess they didn’t remember that eight years ago, when we built the first Sticky Lips, I did hire an electrical union contractor, who was a personal friend.)
    Once again, within two days, Bob Bibbins from the New York State Department of Labor showed up. He informed me that he wanted a list of my contractors and that we had to pay prevailing wages on this job. During our initial negotiations with the GVRMA, we were not told about the prevailing wages issue.
    My first question is: why and when did these two government agencies start doing the dirty work for the construction unions?
    The restaurant opened in the first week of October, 2011. I paid all the contractors and everyone is happy. Now my contractors have just been served subpoenas for a May 16th hearing.
    Bob Bibbins pressured me to go online to register this project with the labor department, which would automatically commit me or my contractors to pay prevailing wages. He said he would start the violation from the date he showed up, but wouldn’t put that deal in writing. I did not submit to this online filing. My lawyer at Woods Oviatt Gilman gave Bibbins our stance that we own the building privately and we are only making improvements to the building and not the land which it sits on. I insisted that Bibbins tell me who was really behind this pressure that the Labor Department was putting on this project. I asked him point blank if it was the electrical union. In a round-about way, he let me know I wasn’t too far off.
    According to Public Work Article 8, Section 220, N.Y.S. Labor Law, part A: “What is a Public Work? In determining whether a construction project is a public work, two conditions must be fulfilled….”
    Out of the two, the one that would apply is #2: “The contract must concern a public work project. To be public work, the project’s primary objective must be to benefit the public. Ownership (public or private) is also a factor in determining whether a project is public work.”
    More simply, Webster’s II New College Dictionary defines public works as “construction projects, as highways or dams, financed by public funds and constructed by a government for the general public.”
    Also from the law, part B: “Who makes the determination whether a project is a public work? Generally, projects for construction, reconstruction, or maintenance done on behalf of a public agency (entity) are public work. In instances where there is a question regarding whether this condition exist, the Bureau of Public Works will make a determination based on the project details.”
    As I discovered, the Bureau of Public Works and Commissioner of Labor are both part of the N.Y.S. Labor Department, and in fact have offices on the same floor. So who there can make an unbiased decision on what is a public work?
    My take on this Article 8, N.Y.S. Labor Law is that the primary objective is to benefit a private entity not the public. This alone should exempt Sticky Lips BBQ or myself from the prevailing wage.
    In the meantime, Bibbins is going to push this and see that I pay these prevailing wages. He has subpoenaed the contractors, who have to show up May 16th and attend before Ralph Gleason, public work wage investigator. He has been designated by the Commissioner of Labor to conduct an investigation concerning Sticky Lips BBQ, “an entity subject to an investigation by the New York State Department of Labor concerning a public work project pursuant to the provisions of Article 8, New York State Labor Law.”
    All I did was to put many construction workers to work. I bought hundreds of thousands of dollars of construction materials from local companies. At this restaurant, I have created over 120 good-paying jobs. The business will collect and pay hundreds of thousands dollars in sales, property, employment, and other taxes. Between my three restaurants, I have over 200 employees. I am contributing to the state, I am creating jobs. I am the type of businessman the state wants. I feel like I am being attacked by these two unions, who have put pressure on the N.Y.S. Labor Department to see this through.
    Not only do I need to reinvest my profits to grow my business, but now I have to pay thousands of dollars in legal fees and worst case scenario – if the Labor Department wins, many more thousands for this prevailing wage issue.
    Is this the type of business practice I should expect from New York State as I try to grow my business in the upcoming years?
    Howard Nielsen
    Because this man decided to hire his friends as contractors, for a wage that they deemed totally acceptable to do work like electrical wiring and construction, completely within code, the unions started harassing him, and when that didn't work the unions appealed to sympathetic bureaucracy in Albany to harass him for them. Now this man, who by all rights did nothing wrong, is facing an expensive lawsuit for not paying "prevailing wage" (though we all know his real crime is not hiring the Rochester unions). It's putting his business in jeopardy.

    This is outrageous.

    I'd like to add, by the way, that this is getting a huge response in the Rochester area, with loads of people writing letters to their state representatives.

  • #2
    That does seem to be an abuse of the system.
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

    Comment


    • #3
      crony-ism is everywhere. why adapt to changing circumstances, if you can manoeuvre the business environment to adapt to you?

      thankfully entrepreneurs like the one above stand up for themselves

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow. This is insane
        If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
        ){ :|:& };:

        Comment


        • #5
          This is an argument against corruption generally, but not labor unions specifically. Additionally, it might be nice to see things from another point of view.
          Click here if you're having trouble sleeping.
          "We confess our little faults to persuade people that we have no large ones." - François de La Rochefoucauld

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          • #6
            Additionally, it might be nice to see things from another point of view.
            Corrupt Union official. That bastard is doing work without using the union. We can't have that. It's too bad we can't just have him knocked off like in the old days. (or break a few legs or start a fire).
            Fortunately we contribute to many politicians that are corrupt enough to do our dirty work for us. It will even look legal. Thank god for America.


            And that's my biggest problem with unions. Originally they served a great purpose but eventually obtained enough power that the became corrupted, and mob influenced. While a lot of that has changed, the corruption still exists. (pension fattening in Illinois recently comes to mind) Unless you get rid of it, we're better off without unions.
            It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
            RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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            • #7
              Upon further review, some might say the same of big business and there would be some truth in that.
              But I remember when I was younger and working as a non-union carpenter. We were doing a small job and some union reps showed up (if they had ever held a hammer before it was for breaking knee caps) and tried to intimidate us off the job. When we refused to quit the work site, we were roughed up. I had grown up hearing how the Unions were the heroes of the little people. This was my first up close experience and was the beginning of my bias against them. Having studied history, I was well aware of all the positives they had accomplished for the emerging middle class but the reality got quite ugly. There are some unions that probably still provide some value, but when I see a union action so stubborn that the company that employs them can't afford to do business anymore which costs the union jobs, I just shake my head. Or unions that fight any evaluation method to protect non performing teachers. Heck, if I don't do my job well, I'd be on the street in a second. And I'm sure there are exceptions out there, but overall I can't justify them.
              It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
              RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

              Comment


              • #8
                If he owned the land instead of leasing it from the government, he'd be fine, right?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Not sure of that legal aspect but I have a sneaking suspicion that if not that it would have been something else. IF it's anything like Chicago and you're not paying off inspectors they will find "CODE" violations whether they exist or not. Or not approving blue prints and such just to cause delays that will cost you money.
                  It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                  RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I had grown up hearing how the Unions were the heroes of the little people. This was my first up close experience and was the beginning of my bias against them.
                    When I went to school - I was assigned student notetakers by the disability organization. They would take submissions, wade through them, and fill out the application from those who applied. I would never meet the notetaker and they would never meet me. After my first year, I said, screw that - let me pick my own notetaker, I'll get them set up and then you can pay them.

                    I wanted to have the same person in all of my classes so that instead of dealing with 5 people, I had to deal with 1. No go. Union said - we can't pay her more than 5 hours a week notetaking. Union contract. Find 5 people or go without. I fought them all year, and eventually they decided to let her take notes for me for all the classes. They never did pay her what she was owed for the work she did, and they kept bouncing checks on her. She would come to me to complain and I'd have to go back to the office.

                    I was better off doing it all myself then dealing with the union bull****. They were harassing me because they wanted to sift through the applicants themselves and decide who would get paid rather then me doing that work. That way they could pick and choose their own friends.
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                    • #11
                      Labor union suing Obama's Labor Department byJoel Gehrke Commentary Staff Writer
                      Share on emailShare on printFollow on Twitter:Washington, D.C. -- Alex Bastani, president of the local 12 chapter of the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE), told union members that they are filing a complaint against the Department of Labor that may develop into a class action lawsuit.

                      AFGE is affiliated with the AFL-CIO, a mega-union that has endorsed President Obama, but parking rate increases at DOL have Local 12 up in arms against the Obama administration.

                      "Management has made it clear that it intends to move forward on July 1st with the parking increase without the involvement of the Union and despite any hardship expressed by the employees," Bastani wrote to union members in an email obtained by The Washington Examiner.

                      The union is angry about losing a $35 per month parking fee as the DOL turns management of its parking spaces over to a private contractor. "The eventual contractor will charge 'slightly below' the average Washington rate of '$220 to $260/month,'" The Washington Examiner's Paul Bedard explained, per Labor Department official Al Stewart's announcement of the change.

                      "We will be filing a complaint with the Federal Service Impasses Panel requesting an order that the United States Department of Labor be compelled to bargain with us over its decision to contract out the parking, [and the] increase in rates," Bastani told members.

                      Local 12 will also attempt to haul the Obama administration before the Federal Labor Relations Board, and may file a civil lawsuit against the Labor Department. "We will also explore whether a class action can be filed pursuant to the Rehabilitation Act for those employees who are disabled and park in the Frances Perkins Building Garage," Bastani wrote.

                      In the meantime, they will organize more public protests.
                      No, I did not steal that from somebody on Something Awful.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So?
                        “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                        "Capitalism ho!"

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                        • #13
                          Yeah, that was my reaction too.
                          Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                          • #14
                            I've always wondered why business hasn't fought back with public service organizations -- e.g., somebody like the ACLU for businesses. Sue the pants off of these unions if they do stuff like this.
                            I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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                            • #15
                              I didn't know you could "sue" unions.
                              "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

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