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Thread: Also, the economy would collapse.

  1. #31
    regexcellent
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    Note that state taxes pay for most of the actually important things, like education and police protection.
    I come from the land of the ice and snow
    From the rust belt where industry won't go

  2. #32
    SlowwHand
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    Ever hear of school taxes? Another instance of citizens getting screwed as they pay the way for illegals.
    Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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    He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

  3. #33
    kentonio
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    Except that illegals put far more money into the economy than they take out.

  4. #34
    gribbler
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Don't you have sales taxes in the USA, meaning that all illegals pay taxes whenever they buy something at the supermarket to eat?
    That's true, although food is often exempt from sales tax.

  5. #35
    Al B. Sure!
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    Quote Originally Posted by regexcellent View Post
    Most of them do actually pay taxes. What they don't do is file tax returns, thus making them ineligible for refunds of overpayment.
    This is false. Illegal immigrants DO file tax returns if they can get a refund.

    I found this out recently from someone I know who owns and operates a tax accountant service. She does hundreds of illegal immigrant returns.

    This isn't even a secret kept by tax professionals. The treasury department knows about it but the media doesn't report it:

    http://www.treasury.gov/tigta/auditr...01141061fr.pdf

    Final Audit Report – Individuals Who Are Not Authorized to Work
    in the United States Were Paid $4.2 Billion in Refundable Credits
    (Audit # 200940031)
    This is one of those things that I would think would get media/public outrage but no one knows about it.
    Last edited by Al B. Sure!; May 13, 2012 at 14:19.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowwHand View Post
    Ever hear of school taxes? Another instance of citizens getting screwed as they pay the way for illegals.
    Most of those are paid for by property taxes so if they rent a house they're paying it.
    "Our scientific power has out run out spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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  7. #37
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    As a restaurant manager in the 90's I am sure that I hired many illegals. Or I should say that I was pretty sure they were illegals. However, they had totally legit looking paperwork and were the only people that applied for the jobs that I posted in the paper. For me NOT to hire them would have been discrimination based on a feeling.
    We're sorry, the voices in my head are not available at this time. Please try back again soon.

  8. #38
    dannubis
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyHorse View Post
    Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.
    Coming from Europe where we ignored the impact of immigration on society for way too long, I disagree.

    Economically speaking it makes sense, but social impacts of mooving large numbers of people into your country would be devastating.
    "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

  9. #39
    KrazyHorse
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    Europeans are bigoted pieces of ****. **** you and your culture.
    04-06-04 Killdozer NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
    Get Rich or Die Tryin'

  10. #40
    dannubis
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    Says the sociopath...
    "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

  11. #41
    gribbler
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannubis View Post
    Coming from Europe where we ignored the impact of immigration on society for way too long, I disagree.

    Economically speaking it makes sense, but social impacts of mooving large numbers of people into your country would be devastating.
    Who exactly do you hate? The Muslims?

  12. #42
    The Mad Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyHorse View Post
    That is what is known as "the right question".

    I don't have any problem with enforcement of the law. The real question is why the law is what it is.

    Open borders (subject to criminal background check), no social security net for migrants, unilateral free trade with every country on earth. These are the things that would benefit anybody who did them.
    Making sense.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

  13. #43
    The Mad Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlowwHand View Post
    Ever hear of school taxes? Another instance of citizens getting screwed as they pay the way for illegals.
    Somebody's paying the property taxes.

    Anyway, it's moot if immigration opens up.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

  14. #44
    The Mad Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by dannubis View Post
    Coming from Europe where we ignored the impact of immigration on society for way too long, I disagree.

    Economically speaking it makes sense, but social impacts of mooving large numbers of people into your country would be devastating.
    Because, you know, the US has never had mass immigration, at all.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

  15. #45
    The Mad Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by regexcellent View Post
    I'm not talking about amnesty; I'm talking about letting new people in on permanent visas.


    Just let us know who they are, that's all I ask.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

  16. #46
    kentonio
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Monk View Post
    Because, you know, the US has never had mass immigration, at all.
    Yet now half the US shits a brick every time a mexican jumps the fence.

  17. #47
    The Mad Monk
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    ...because a lot more than "a mexican" can jump the fence. The border is dangerously porous, and Mexico is disintegrating.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

  18. #48
    regexcellent
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    I don't mind securing the border and tightening down the hatches; I just want us to let almost everyone in through the legal channels.

    Obviously we want to prevent the conflict south of the border from spilling over here. Mexico has no shortage of violent criminals. Juarez is scary even from this side of the Rio Grande. However, the vast majority of Mexicans coming over are just working really hard, paying taxes, and doing proud the several hundred year tradition of the American immigrant.
    I come from the land of the ice and snow
    From the rust belt where industry won't go

  19. #49
    The Mad Monk
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    Absolutely.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

  20. #50
    Dauphin
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Monk View Post
    Because, you know, the US has never had mass immigration, at all.
    Yeah, the natives really benefited from it.
    Capitalisation - The difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse
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  21. #51
    Uncle Sparky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dauphin View Post
    Yeah, the natives really benefited from it.
    The Mexicans have been very clever with their immigration - current 'americans' won't have to be put on reservations, they are segregating themselves in gated communities.
    There's nothing wrong with the dream, my friend, the problem lies with the dreamer.

  22. #52
    The Mad Monk
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    Speak for yourself, paleface.
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

  23. #53
    Dauphin
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    Qatar is an interesting example. Over 80% of denizens are migrant workers IIRC.
    Last edited by Dauphin; May 15, 2012 at 14:42. Reason: typo 80 not 50
    Capitalisation - The difference between helping your uncle Jack off a horse, and helping your uncle jack off a horse
    Grammar - The difference between knowing your $hit, and knowing you're $hit.
    Spelling - The difference between being literate, and being Dinner.

  24. #54
    DaShi
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    Didn't KH already win this thread?
    “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
    "Capitalism ho!"

  25. #55
    dannubis
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    Quote Originally Posted by gribbler View Post
    Who exactly do you hate? The Muslims?
    Where in what I wrote do you read hate ?

    Every system needs time to adapt to change. Let's give it time.
    "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

  26. #56
    dannubis
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Mad Monk View Post
    Because, you know, the US has never had mass immigration, at all.
    Currently I think the system of green cards works very well.
    "Ceterum censeo Ben esse expellendum."

  27. #57
    The Mad Monk
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    It's too expensive and convoluted. Also, quotas? What the ****??
    "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.

  28. #58
    regexcellent
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    Green cards would be fine if we gave them to everyone.

    The reason the idea of an unsecured border is scary is because of the fact that we don't check at all what kind of people are jumping it. Fortunately, most of them are just ordinary people seeking a better life. If we gave those people green cards, they'd come in the normal way.
    I come from the land of the ice and snow
    From the rust belt where industry won't go

  29. #59
    DaShi
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    Let's create a system where coordinated gangs of drug dealers can easily cross the border, but ordinary people just looking for work can't...oh wait.
    “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
    "Capitalism ho!"

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