Or maybe they should make Luongo captain...right Ben?
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2010 Olympic Hockey Thread
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Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Do you realize Canada is not sending the New Jersey Devils to the playoffs?
Luongo also won more games during the regular season last year.
Brodeur would make a good backup to Luongo.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostYou were the one arguing that playoff performance last year was at all relevant.
Look at the numbers, Ben. They don't lie. Brodeur was the superior goaltender when the games got tough.
The team infront of him is not relevant.
Loungo has precisely zero experience in big-game goaltending. Brodeur has TONS. Luongo sucked ass in the 2nd round last year as the games got bigger and bigger.
Skill-wise, Luongo and Brodeur are both elite. The difference between the two is pedigree and historical performance in big games -- Brodeur has it, Luongo doesn't."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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Brodeur was the superior goaltender when the games got tough.
Luongo had a winning record.
If you look at their respective first rounds, Luongo outperformed Brodeur. Luongo faced way stiffer competition because he was successful in winning a playoff round.
Loungo has precisely zero experience in big-game goaltending. Brodeur has TONS. Luongo sucked ass in the 2nd round last year as the games got bigger and bigger.
Brodeur sucked so much that he wasn't able to reach the second round.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostBrodeur lost in the first round.
Luongo had a winning record.
Brodeur's won 3 Stanley Cups, Luongo has won none. If you're using the "team performance = goalie performance" fallacy like you are here, Luongo loses there too.
What matters is the players. Luongo wasn't very good (to his potential) in the playoffs, Brodeur elevated his game. That's the difference between a starting goaltender on the Olympic team, and his backup."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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You're so ****ing stupid. The Devils lost in the first round, but not because of Brodeur. He was outstanding.
Vancouver lost in the second around, arguably because Luongo sucked. This whole argument that the Canucks went 1 round farther means **** all.
What matters is the players. Luongo wasn't very good (to his potential) in the playoffs,
Brodeur elevated his game. That's the difference between a starting goaltender on the Olympic team, and his backup.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Luongo had a GAA of 1.15 in the first round. That's the kind of goaltending I want to see in the Olympics.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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SO Ben-- your argument for Luongo as Olympic starter seems to be
1. the games are in Vancouver
2. Luongo won more games than Brodeur last year
Asher argues in favor of Brodeur based on
1. Luongo's lack of a big-game pedigree
2. Brodeur's Stanley cup experience and wins, his past Olympic #1 status etc etc
I have to go with Asher on this one. Barring injury and of course depending on next year's play, Brodeur will be the presumptive #1. He has a longer history as an elite goalie and has a history, that includes winning it all , that Luongo does not have. Broduer did not have a stellar game 7 last year either but he has enough "big game' wins that his credentials remain impressive. For Luongo, a complete melt-down means people are questioning his "big-game" ability for the frst time
Overall
1 Brodeur has the more impressive list of accomplishments -- its not even close
2. On recent play, last year's playoffs, Brodeur remains ahead with better sv% and GAA-- The only thing Luongo had was more wins and excuse me if taking out St Louis doesn't tilt the balance for me
So for me its Brodeur's job to lose and Luongo is the heir apparent.
Fleury and Ward are probably battling for # 3 billing while Mason has to be seen as the outsider.
The only other factor for me will be how much will the brass consider pre-Olympic play-- IF some keeper is just playing at an other-worldly level in the run-up to the Olympics, do you ignore that?
I know that in some prior Olympics, the GM has been criticized for not picking up on some of the emerging talent and just going with the old guy that hasn't been so stellar this year but has the lonnger pedigreeLast edited by Flubber; July 3, 2009, 08:27.You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo
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Anyway, bickering with Ben aside, there were obviously some curious choices and omissions. I think it's kind of sad that neither Spezza or Savard were invited, but people like Marc and Jordan Staal, Andy MacDonald and Milan Lucic were. Yes, they can still make the team and yes, Spezza certainly floats more than he should, but Spezza and Savard are bonified 100 point threats every season and neither are as bad defensively as they're made out to be. Because Eric Staal scored 100 points once and has since shown himself to be not even a point-per-game player, everyone thinks he's a superstar. And his brothers arguably aren't even above average NHLers, but they're stars too because their last name is Staal. [/rant]
* Note: I do think Eric Staal is a legitimate Olympic candidate, I just also think he's not the second coming of Christ."The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
"you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
"I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostNot as good as Luongo was in the first round. You have to compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges. Luongo was better then Brodeur in his first round and won the series. Luongo was better then Brodeur in the second round, as Brodeur didn't even play a game.
It means a great deal when you are evaluating who can win you the gold medal. You want the player who's ready now, and not 10 games from now. Sure Brodeur is better in cup finals, but you need to get there first.
Luongo was excellent in the first round, and not as good in the second. He outperformed Brodeur in the first round and outperformed Brodeur in the second. You can say that his overall performance was not as good, but then you are comparing apples to oranges. Is 3-4 the same as 6-4?
Brodeur's elevated game was not as good as Luongo's in the first round. It wasn't good enough to get past Carolina.
Why don't we compare the performance of Luongo vs Brodeur in the 3rd round, or finals?
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostLuongo had a GAA of 1.15 in the first round. That's the kind of goaltending I want to see in the Olympics.
They played ****ing St Louis in the 1st round. That's why his stats are inflated."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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Hate to break this to you, Ben, but the "first round" experience is not at all relevant. Look at the whole picture, stop cherrypicking.
Why don't we compare the performance of Luongo vs Brodeur in the 3rd round, or finals?
What was his GAA in the second round
They played ****ing St Louis in the 1st round. That's why his stats are inflated.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostI am looking at the whole picture. When comparing apples to apples, Luongo was far superior.
Why don't we compare the performance of Ken Dryden to Luongo. Or maybe Vezina? Ancient history.
Better then Brodeur.
Tell us, what was Luongo's GAA in the 2nd round as the games got bigger and teams got tougher?
And New Jersey LOST to Carolina, in the powerhouse division of the NHL."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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I have to go with Asher on this one. Barring injury and of course depending on next year's play, Brodeur will be the presumptive #1.
He has a longer history as an elite goalie and has a history, that includes winning it all , that Luongo does not have.
He lost to the eventual cup champs in Anaheim, after stealing a series from Dallas.
He had nearly a sub goal a game performance against St. Louis last season, and did just fine except for game 6 against Chicago, where he got injured and played through. Stats don't tell the whole story, and I wouldn't pick my goalie based only on his stats.
The stats show that through the longer sample of last season, that Luongo was the better goalie then Brodeur.
Broduer did not have a stellar game 7 last year either
but he has enough "big game' wins that his credentials remain impressive. For Luongo, a complete melt-down means people are questioning his "big-game" ability for the frst time
2. On recent play, last year's playoffs, Brodeur remains ahead with better sv% and GAA-- The only thing Luongo had was more wins and excuse me if taking out St Louis doesn't tilt the balance for me
I know that in some prior Olympics, the GM has been criticized for not picking up on some of the emerging talent and just going with the old guy that hasn't been so stellar this year but has the lonnger pedigreeScouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!
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Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View PostThat is true. Luongo has only been in the playoffs twice. However, he has always been a big game goalie, and has taken teams where they shouldn't have.
Lets look at these big games. Vancouver on the brink of elimination, how did Luongo do?
Game 5: 89% svp
Game 6: 76% svp
This is Luongo 'always being a big game goalie'?"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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You two are just precious!Apolyton's Grim Reaper 2008, 2010 & 2011
RIP lest we forget... SG (2) and LaFayette -- Civ2 Succession Games Brothers-in-Arms
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