Rise Of Nations Beta Has Been Pirated!!!

[wilebill]

Software piracy ... I feel sorry for the hard working programmers and corporate staff defrauded by the pirates and I feel sorry for the investors who lose some return on their money because of the dishonesty of these villainous thieves.

As for the pirates and those who download their stolen goods, they have reduced themselves to the social level of pickpockets and purse snatchers. I despise pickpockets and purse snatchers and regard them with utter contempt and disdain.

I feel the same way about software pirates and I feel the same way about those who surrender their integrity and dishonor themselves by knowingly making use of stolen property.

Remember too that people who pirate software will steal your money and belongings if they have a chance to do so. Also remember that people who download and make use of stolen software are the sort of people who have no scruples about buying physical merchandise that they know to have been illegally obtained.

A pirate copy of the RON beta? Where are Microsoft's software bum bailiffs when we need them!

[theponyguy1]

Whoaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!! Lighten up on the grammar there, buddy.

[FrostyBoy]

If I'm gonna spend $100 on a game, I expect it to be good, if it is rushed, and I am 'tricked' into believing that it's good, great, etc, and it really isn't, then I expect to have my money back.

I remember the good old days, where you practically HAD to play the demo first before you bought it. I think that actually worked.

I haven't come across one good game yet, that I would buy, the last game I bought was Black and White, what a load of crap. If games don't start getting better, then of course, people are going to buy games less and less. I think most people who pirate, download it, play it and if they hate it, they'll throw it away.

A better solution is to sell the game at the price its WORTH, a game should be played by testers, game-freaks, for like a month, give it a rating, and then place an appropriate price on the value of the game itself.

I believe, if you can't make a good game, don't bother.

[vovan]

Well, I think I disagree with practically every point you made there, Sn00py.

If I'm gonna spend $100 on a game, I expect it to be good, if it is rushed, and I am 'tricked' into believing that it's good, great, etc, and it really isn't, then I expect to have my money back.

Well, first I may be wrong, but I have yet to see a game that costs $100. (Unless you are talking in $ other than USD.) The "standard" tag nowadays is $50. Secondly, yes, I agree with you that this is still a large sum of money for some people, and we all would like to think that if we pay that price for something, it should be good. But as far as being "tricked" into believing a game is good, I don't think there is anything extraordinary about that. First of all, you are probebly mainly affected by game sites, and magazines, which, I think, retain a certain amount of independance from the game companies in the way they review the games. (While, I am sure they have certain "benefits" from large corporations for giving good reviews, I still think they are more or less objective.) Secondly, isn't that the case in any money-making industry? I mean, look at any ad. Any at all, and you can just see the people sitting in some dark room, scratching their heads, thinking how to better trick you into buying their product. The game industry is by far the tamest of all, IMO.

I remember the good old days, where you practically HAD to play the demo first before you bought it. I think that actually worked.

And what has changed now? Only that instead of trying the demo, which most companies still put out, you can go to your favourite p2p network and download the full version?

If games don't start getting better, then of course, people are going to buy games less and less.

Aha, I agree with that one.

I think most people who pirate, download it, play it and if they hate it, they'll throw it away.

The problem is that if they do like it, they will just keep playing. Nowadays that the compression algorithms are getting better and better, and the pirated versions of games "ship" with sound effects, and music, which was normally omitted back in the days to speed up the download, the pirated versions have virtually no drawbacks that would force you to go out and buy the game. Really, three-four years ago, you would play a pirated game, and go out and buy the full version because it has the sounds, and music, and cinematics. But now it all fits into one nice archive, and you can enjoy your stolen software. So, there is no incentive for the pirates to become good.

A better solution is to sell the game at the price its WORTH, a game should be played by testers, game-freaks, for like a month, give it a rating, and then place an appropriate price on the value of the game itself.

I don't think it would work. Look how impatient people are! A game is delayed for a month, and people start whining that the developers don't care about them, and start building conspiracy theories about how the evil programmers have everything done and are now out to torture the faithful fans with expectation. Now imagine what would happen if the people were told: "Oh, yeah, the game is done. It has already been printed, put into boxes and shipped to stores. But we aren't gonna sell it for another month or two, because we want to set the right pice tag. Just wait till this 1000 game freaks we have chosen gets tired of playing tells us their impressions, and then we might start selling it." Don't think it's going to work very well.

I believe, if you can't make a good game, don't bother.

I believe if you can't tell a good game from a bad game, you shouldn't get angry when they sell you a "load of crap." First of all, if they don't make bad games, how can they improve? When you started learning math, for instance, did you go to triple integrals right away, because you beleved if you can't do math well, don't do it, or did you actually learn to add and subtract first? Did you swim like a pro the first time you got into a river, or maybe you can't swim still, because you believe, if you can't swim well, don't do it, and so you never bothered trying? Making games is similar to all those activities, you know, because you can't just sit down and make a good game. You can't just say: "Oh, well, I think I can't make good games, so I won't bother even trying to learn." Same with gaming companies. They can't just sit down and make a "good" game. First of all, they need to figure out what is a good game. And what may be a good game to you might be the crappiest thing for me.

And besides, do you really think that people think their game will suck when they are making it? Do you really think Sid was sitting in his Firaxis office while working on Civ3 and thinking: "Gosh, now how would I make this brilliant concept I had for civ1 suck?" Do you really think the designers of MoO3 came to their meetings to discuss how to make their gui as unusable as possible and the game in general as hard to learn as possible?

[FrostyBoy]

I'm from NZ, so it costs me over $120 for a 'good' game.

The point I was making about pirates throwing games away after playing it and not liking is that the amount of bad games out there have pushed a huge portion of the market into pirating to try it out first. So right now, I would estimate that 80% of the games released in the last 3 years were bad and 20% are good. If the market expects everyone to buy the game, the industry has to swap the 80% and 20% around.


SCREW the people who can't wait any longer to play the game. They've GOT to learn how to be patient, I firmly believe that they would still play the game after waiting a long time for it. AS LONG AS THE GAME IS GOOD to GREAT it will SELL. Look at Duke 4Ever, 4-5 years?! Hey, ppl can whinge, moan, fart, and complain that they are just sick and tired of waiting, well that's not 3D Realms fault, that's their own fault for worrying so much, they should have gone and done something else with their life - I learned this from waiting for CTP, Civ3 and Black&White - 2 of them were projected to be major games, all were disappointments. So the industry has effectively lost a customer.


When I say that they shouldn't bother making good games if they can't make em' good, I am talking about ppl who have the money, and have the experience. They seem to make 'cuts' to their game because they don't want to spend TOO much money on it, but don't worry, they'll rip you and I off in the end, just to sel their crappy game. Some games have gotten so bad, that it seems there's no other reason, but the fact that the creators of their own games, don't even play it before releasing it. That's how BAD it seems. And if they do know that one part of the game is horrible, why the hell don't they CHANGE IT?

It's simple, when you buy a car, you expect to be able to drive it, when you buy a fridge, you expect it to keep your food cool, when you buy a microwave, you expect that to heat your food, but when you buy a game, you expect that to be fun - but, no, it's not, this is one industry where you literally have to gamble your money - and I just don't think that's going to last, I firmly believe that if the game industry wants to save its arse, it better start pulling its act together. But also PC's are losing and consoles are winning - I don't want that to happen, I LIKE the PC, I hate consoles! If there's ever a point in life where I can no longer buy games for the PC, I will just simply not play games anymore, unless consoles come with the internet, a keyboard and a mouse. Playing 50% of the games on a console, is as easy as spreading butter on bread with a toothpick. And don't say "I am just no good on consoles" I watch ppl who are, and there's no way in hell, it's easier to play a 3DShooter on a console, than it is on a PC, and even an RTS.

I haven't seen one good game since GTA3 - and that's getting old.
Right now, Rockstar is the only company I can trust.

[yin26]

For most companies, I'd test a download first. For Brian and Crew, though, coupled with how the game is described *and* being previewed credibly, this game seems about as much a 'safe bet' as you're going to get.

Also, I think the support from BHG is going to be outstanding ... if slowed to a crawl because MS is going to take over the patching process to a large degree (not the number but the release time). This is based on experience with Ensemble Studios ... good company forced to release fixes at a snail's pace.

Go Brian!!!

[FrostyBoy]

Yin, you're like a large peice of metal, and arguements are the magnets

We all said Civ3 was gonna be great, remember? Don't set yourself up to fall down again.

[yin26]

LOL!

Naw, I've mellowed. I haven't followed RONs development and, therefore, have few expectations. Also, I just had my second kid, so I don't have time to hang on every patch, etc.

Still, if I were a betting man, I'd say that given all the time RON has been in development, and given that the previews have been detailed in their praise of the game, I think this one is a winner. I didn't actually think that of Civ3 at *any* point if you recall. In fact, when Brian left the project, it was clear that there was trouble in the House of Firaxis.

Sure enough, Civ3 without Brian's vision turned into complete garbage.

[FrostyBoy]

You are right, there were two things that Civ3 lacked, and that was Sid and Brian, and let's face the fact here, Sid may have created Civ, but Brian made Civ great with Civ2.

So yes, there is a huge possibility that RoN will rule.

[Odin]

There wouldent be such a piracy problem if the companies actually waited until they iron out all the bugs. People want to see if the beta is good before they buy the released game. I think that the gamming companies are shooting themselves in the foot the same way the recording industry shot themselves in the foot by not using the internet for thier advantage. After seeing the piece of SH!T that is MoO3 I am sympathetic to some of the pirates.

BTW: how did this become known a piracy? I see no connection with this and people stealing valuable cargo from a ship or caravan.