Rise of Nations -- Time for your ideas!

[One_Dead_Villy]

ya but whose going to agree to a fine...this isnt the real world.. even in the real world no every country follows the geneva convention. u have to be careful of modelling real world political entities and conventions in a game, those things arent universal laws of warfare or civilization. any agreement in the real world is a quid pro quo or done at the barrel of a gun. if i was the most powerful country in the world and everyone else was way below me in technology, and i was an evil despot what do i care about some other countries medics? if u fine for killing a medic why not fine people for killing someone else's civilians...this simply is not a realistic model of warfare or even reality. cause if i was bulligerent dictator you cant make me pay a fine, unless u defeat my country..

[Mahdimael]

Yeah, you definitely don't want to make things too complicated. So maybe the following should be the only rules for medics:

-Heal units in a range around them, and themselves
-Cannot heal attrition damage
-"Geneva convention" tech makes them invulnerable to direct fire. Splash damage and attrition can kill them
-Cannot capture cities or attack enemy soldiers

This way, if you want to kill infantry, just use some artillery or bombers, or just wait for them to die from attrition

[Viking Berserk]

* Supply Wagons -> yes they can move... slooowwwwwly. "Depletion" of supply wagons has been in, out, back in, back out again, etc. Right now it's out because it was turning out to create more micromanagement than fun (always a balancing act).

well, if you remove the supply wagons you should remove the atrittion damage too.

[MarkG]

i like depletion of supply units. it adds to the "strategy part" of the game and represents the idea of supply lines better...

as for micromanagment, you just need to have a factory with the rally point in your war front...

[Viking Berserk]

well, i quoted something that brian reynolds said

[Gen.Adamgunz64]

I think the addition of paratroopers would add way more strategic opportunity for a game like Rise of Nations. Deploying troops from Airplanes would be useful for transporting, and also a player could perhaps use trade through this; transport good through unloading airplanes...?

[XarXo]

huh, will be train railroads ? Pretty interesting....

[sun_tzu_159]

It may be repeating as there are alot of pages here and I only read a few of them.

To get away from micromanagement can we have a repairer unit that will automatically stay on repairing duty and go to each job as necessary without being pointed to each and every building/wall/fence/outhouse/blade of grass that has damage.

Building of such a specialist unit could come into the choices for citizens. You would decide how many to build for construction jobs, repair jobs, farmers.

Or build citizens that are assigned jobs for life. So that if you set a construction project all the available builders can move to it - or you get a box saying 'x' builders availabe, how many to use?

'You have 'x' farms without farmers - produce farmers now?'
'There are no builders available for this construction project -
produce builders now?,
reassign builders now?,
put this building in construction queue?

Instead of having to press the idle citizen button a large bell can appear in the middle of the screen and ring loudly until that citizen is working again - oops thats work in real life - sorry!

Idea below to eliminate the ridiculous situation of targetting am enemy unit by clicking on it with a mouse pointer after clicking on your unit first.

When planning an attack in a real situation units target other units prior to attack. So you should be able to set a units preferred target so that a battle doesn't turn into a random melee.
eg
all available units to attack tanks first,
cavalry to attack priests first,
priests to convert swordsmen first,
fighters to attack nuclear bombers first.

Please can we have a global population limit but have no limit on each civ. They can produce population until the maximum level is reached globally. Message, global population limit reached - you cannot produce any more units at this time.

In many of these games you can scan across enemy positions/units/buildings to check damage status. It is a giant spying loophole. This ability should be removed unless you are actively engaged in attack - the equivalent of seeing it. Its a giant spying loophole.

Walls are far too strong in other games of this type, and so are towers. I had an idea here that the strength of a wall or tower could be enhanced by the presence of military and civilian units. So a wall section garrisoning troops is stronger and can fight back like a tower. Any sections not garrisoned are significantly weaker and more vulnerable.
eg
wall HP, no troops = 4000
each troop garrisoned in that section adds HP according to type and enables attack ability with arrows etc. To a maximum. So 3 archers garrisoned in section = 7000 HP

This would create the realistic effect of attacking troops trying to pinpoint weak spots while defenders rush to protect the new point of attack. It would also force you to leave some troops at home instead of holding out against 100 cannon with 2 citizens repairing the walls.

Citizens speed of repairing things must be slowed down. I have had cannon attacking a wall in AOE and a citizen happily repairing it while under bombardment. After about 10 minutes its boring.
Slow down repair rates and subject citizens repairing under fire to that fire the same as military units. This will force the defender to come out and actually tackle the enemy.

Idea from AOM.
You must include some sort of global choices like the God system here, each choice is tactically critical to each phase of the game.

A battle log could be created for major battles, along the same lines as the standard time-line graphs for the overall game. It could detail eg total troops fighting, units lost, buildings destroyed.
Message - this battle involved more than 100 troops, view battle log?

Regards
STZ

[One_Dead_Villy]

I think it maybe cool to say have a RAILROAD upgrade..that changes your trade routes into Railroads (and your caravans/trucks) to trains. They would move faster and let you collect wealth faster.

Maybe also increases the movement rate of all your units by a percentage while in friendly territory with railroad upgrades.

[theponyguy1]

yeah, but maybe only in the industrail age, because this was the time of the Railroad boom, (industrial revolution through WW1), but after that, turn back to roads.

[One_Dead_Villy]

after WW1 it may not be a boom but rail is still pretty vital to the current economy...besides they can upgrade it to look like highspeed rail like the Japanese Bullet train or the French version in the info age. besides rail like anything else would be a boom when its 1st introduced , but it certainly hasnt gone obsolete.


anyways it would be cool to see trains. and they had rail way in civ 2 so its something that the BHG designers can understand and do well.

[HuangShang]

its all about the maglev in ShangHai
that is THE info age civil transport system

[One_Dead_Villy]

Now I have some suggestions for civ powers:

CHINA: (power of culture)
i am thinking they should get another power that is in their culture power theme. They gather knowledge faster and cheaper support units already. A way to express culture could be for china to get a discount say maybe even 33% to match with their units discount on buildings that builds cultural units, ie) market, university, towns. It would certainly give them more emphasis on culture, by giving them the same bonuses in the buildings as well as the units it produces. also cheaper support buildings wouldnt be overly powerful either, just an encouragement to develop their cities (hey culture!) if they are still underpowered then maybe a small discount on research that are done in those buildings.

GREEK: (power of philosphy)
Maybe something like around 20%, more or less (depending on balance) discount on aging up research might work and kinda fits with the theme, and wouldnt be too powerful and no one has that so it would be unique. also would help to offset the Greek dependence on knowledge (which is harder to come by then food) to age up.

ROME: (power of caesar)
I think to emphasize their power of caesar, and their powers seem to need a boost to me. and actually i rather see them get something besides free infantry for barrack builds. 1st the position of caesar means dictator and often elected because Rome was in danger, so what would work for this? hmmm...maybe say their capitol gets double bonuses for any buildings they have, and does double attrition on enemies within their capitol city area, if thats not good enough maybe even automatic rally effect for all troops fighting within the capitol city area. Some or all of these effects would be dependent on if they have a general unit within the city to adjust for balance.

After all their capitol was their identity, would make them a real good civ for sudden death capitol games, gives them an alternate path of expansion by having one super city rather then having to use the multi city expansion path, also according to Guns Germs and Steel, the area around Rome was the most productive in the world as far as growing season. so it fits theme, history and is unique.

BRITISH: (power of empire)
One thing the british was know for in their empire expasion was the different foreign troops they acquired as a part of their imperialism, ie) ghurkas, seihks, even native american in fighting the americans during 1812. So maybe something that fits this is everytime they destroy an enemy military building they gain one, two or more (adjust for game balance) free light infantry/cav/supply/spy units (depending on type of building). This would also encorage them to play in a different way then say those who get free units for building their own buildings. It would also be harder too, and helps with their empire building by gaining new troops right at the front line to keep their momentum going as long as they expand into enemy territory. and provides players using them a real unique experience in playing. Possibly even a free villager when a city is captured. Truly power of the Empire in my opinion.


AZTEC: (power of sacrifice)
Something that will add to different gameplay experience and emphasize theme. Is maybe make it so they get double resource bonus for killing enemy units that are within a certain range of a temple, and allow them to build temples anywhere within their nations border. Maybe even have it so that Aztec temples can hold/assert national borders. Also maybe if we have their temples have a radius of effect make it so that Generals within the area can replenish craft points much faster, or simply allow the temple itself to act as generals. This would make maying aztecs quite different then others seeing their temples all over the place.


MONGOL: (Power of the Horde)
One power that is long overdue kinda like the Terran from Starcraft, and fits with Mongols, albe not so much the theme as Horde. Is to allow Mongols to have movable cities and buildings. They can relocate their cities to avoid capture or to better position their city to reach maximum resources. When a city is mobile each building they own in a city is converted to a caravan looking unit (maybe a caravan pulling a Yurt for graphics) until they relocate and settle. They would of course loose a building for each caravan they loose (if they are being attacked). Also if they can relocate their military buildings they can reposition them closer to their new fronts, or move them back to avoid being pushed by borders. This would again give them a really unique gameplay, be pretty good for suddendeath capitol games also. Allows mongols to plop down settlements without having to be too picky about scouting for optimal location, thus allowing them to set up cities earlier to conduct trade.

SPANISH: (power of discovery)
I wouldnt mind seeing them get a boost in their power also. Which maybe in revealed maps, they should get an automatic free scout everytime a new city is built, or even assimulated.

JAPAN: (Power of Honor)

Cities take longer to assimulate, to counter the turk power and/or maybe allow their military buildings to function even when in enemy territory.and fits somewhat with history (how they refused to surrender in many instances) and theme.

[HuangShang]

did that come from the offical site?

[One_Dead_Villy]

These are my suggestions based on playing it, and from looking at what they had on the official site and what found might be better. But none of my suggestions are any of the powers published by their site. if those suggestions become official or are used, then I'd be pretty happy. My suggestions are based on what I think might fit well for the theme idea they are now promoting for their civ powers, and to come up with ideas that are effecting gameplay elements that are taps into different aspects of the game engine, and to promote a varied experience for each civ.

If you like to see what's on the MS rise of nation's official site here is is for your reference: http://www.microsoft.com/games/riseo...ns/nations.asp

Aztec: Power of Sacrifice - Something of a “rush nation,” the Aztec gain extra resources from fallen foes; this opportunism, combined with their powerful light infantry units, makes early attacks by the Aztecs lucrative. To help build infrastructure, their citizens move 20% faster. Aztecs also receive two light infantry units each time an Aztec player builds a Barracks.

Bantu: Power of Migration - The Bantu are a potent building nation. After taking at least one civic technology, they gain the ability to build a third (extra) city. They also add 100% to their population limit. In combat, their barracks units do extra damage to buildings, reducing their need for siege weapons in the early game. They receive special light infantry and air units.

British: Power of Empire - The British Commerce cap is 25% higher than normal. This means that they begin the game with an elevated cap, allowing them to jump to an early lead. In addition, the British create ships and foot archers more quickly. Their unique archer units are especially powerful against enemy heavy infantry.

Chinese: Power of Culture - Rich with tradition and learning, the Chinese accumulate knowledge 10% faster. They also receive gunpowder units before anyone else, and continue to have more powerful gunpowder troops through the Enlightenment age. In addition, all their civilian units are produced significantly faster — this includes citizens, caravans, and merchants!

Egyptians: Power of the Nile - Fed by the "gift of the Nile," the Egyptians begin the game with a granary, and are able to build not five, but seven, farms per city. They also get a 25% discount on Wonder costs, and can produce two Wonders per city. They can also build Wonders one Age earlier than any other nation. Their unique units include chariots and camel-mounted light cavalry.

French: Power of Leadership - The French receive Generals 33% more cheaply, and build them 33% faster and at 50% less cost as well -- and receive a free General every time they build a new fort. They also receive siege and factory units faster and at less expense. French Supply Wagons can heal their troops more quickly, and and the French receive a Supply Wagon every time they build a Siege Factory or Factory. Add to this the line of unique French heavy cavalry, the most powerful in the game, and beware their incursions!

Germans: Power of Industry - An economic powerhouse, the Germans can build mines and smelters from the game's start, and they receive all smelter upgrades free. German submarines and fireships can be built 33% faster and 25% cheaper, and German air units are created 33% faster. In addition, each new German airbase comes with two fighters. To top this off, they enjoy among the largest number of special units in the game, including unique Solduri heavy infantry, Tiger tanks, and Volksgrenadier infantry.

Greeks: Power of Philosophy - - Science and technology are the meat and drink of the Greeks, whose library research is faster and less expensive. The Greek player also begins the game with a university and three scholars, and is able to accumulate and spend Knowledge from the very beginning of the game. In addition, Age advances always cost the Greek player Knowledge, instead of Food. The powerful Greek heavy cavalry will defeat any other heavy cavalry in the game except for the French.

Inca: Power of Gold - The Inca are a building nation. Their structures take half the normal time to build, and are stronger than normal. The Inca also learn from history, and benefit from exploration. Each of their Ruins produce an extra 25 resources when discovered. Inca mines generate not only Metal, but also Wealth. And the Inca Commerce limit is 50% higher than that of other nations. The Inca light infantry are non-ranged, but these Inti troops are extremely powerful, making them formidable special units in defense. The Inca also receive unique late-age siege weapons.

Japanese: Power of Honor - The Japanese are masters of making use of materials at hand. They gain metal 10% faster than normal, and receive double plunder from their attacks. At the same time, opponents get no plunder from them. Their metallurgical skills contribute to making the powerful Samurai line of special heavy infantry. Japanese barracks units are created 10% faster, and at 20% less cost than opposing barracks units. Barracks units (including the powerful Samurai) do 33% extra damage versus buildings. In addition, Japanese aircraft carriers are created faster.

Koreans: Power of Tradition - The Koreans are well-balanced for attack or defense. They begin with a free temple, and receive free temple upgrades, which increase city hit points tremendously. Koreans begin the game with an extra citizen, and receive one extra citizen for each city they own, each time the player builds a new city. Korean citizens can build and repair cities that are under fire without penalty. Koreans receive the militia, minuteman, and partisan upgrades at no cost. Their units are also well-balanced: their Hwarang archers are good on the defensive, and their Flaming Arrow siege weapons are powerful attacking units.

Maya: Power of Architecture - - A prime defensive nation, Mayan buildings that can fire (towers, forts, and cities, both garrisoned and ungarrisoned) do so with extra potency. Mayan buildings are 50% tougher, and can be constructed 50% more quickly. Except for Wonders, Mayan buildings require 25% less timber. Their unique units include the Balamob light infantry, and late-age heavy anti-tank units.

Mongols: Power of the Horde - Masters of the horse, the Mongols produce stables faster and more cheaply. They also suffer less, for the most part, from attrition than any other nation, making them masters of the deep raid into enemy territory. The unique Mongol horse archers add to this power. The Mongol player receives three ranged cavalry each time a stable is built.

Nubians: Power of Trade - The mighty trade empire of the Nubians arise as their territory expands: they gain the special benefit of all rare resources discovered in their nation, even without a Merchant. If they do choose to send a Merchant, those rare resources yield 50% more than the usual number of common resources. The Nubian player always begins the game with a market, and can trade resources from the beginning of the game. The Nubians also get a +1 limit to the number of caravans they can have. And the mighty Ku****e archers and other unique archer and horse archer units make them powerful on both attack and defense.

Romans: Power of Caesar - A good defensive nation with political power, the Romans get stronger forts and towers, and Roman forts exert more border influence, giving them sway over greater territory. Roman forts are also 25% cheaper. The Roman player receives two free heavy infantry unit each time he builds a new barracks. Their unique Legion heavy infantry makes them powerful on the battlefield, as well.

Russians: Power of the Motherland - Another prime defensive nation. The Russian Winter doubles attrition upon invaders. Russians begin the game with an extra peasant, giving them a critical early resource and speed advantage. Russian borders are increased by one per Age. Oil-gathering for the Russians is 20% better, and the Russian player can build refineries in the Industrial Age. Unlike spies from other nations, Russian spies remain hidden until they have finished using their special power. The Rusiny Lancer and other unique light cavalry are especially effective at harrying enemy supply wagons and siege equipment, adding to the difficulty in invading Russian territory. In later eras, their powerful infantry and tanks allow them to take the offensive with great effectiveness.

Spanish: Power of Discovery - The famed Spanish explorers start the game with the entire map visible, though they can't see rare resources or ruins without further exploration. In games where the map is revealed to all players, they receive one additional scout. In addition, their units and buildings gain increased lines of sight, and can detect hidden enemy units. This makes it quite easy to stake out strategic resources and defensive zones with their initial cities.Until the beginning of the Industrial Age, the Spanish player receives a free light ship each time a dock is constructed. The Spanish player also gains 35 resources from ruins, and an additional 35 resources per ruin, per science level. The Spanish also have unique heavy infantry that are especially effective against mounted opponents.

Turks: Power of Siege - The Turks are masters of siege warfare and city fighting; their siege weapons have increased range and line of sight. The Turkish player receives two free siege units, each time a siege factory or factory is constructed. In addition, they assimilate enemy cities at four time the speed of other nations, allowing them to heal more effectively after a battle, which means they can press their campaign with greater speed. Their unique siege weapons and Janissary musket infantry give them a powerful striking army with which to press home their advantages.