PLACE YOUR BETS! Brian left because...

[Adm.Naismith]

MarkG, good point. I missed the news.
I mentioned the "contract agreements", missing to underline the normal "privacy fact" and "don't cut the bridge back" rules of people leaving.

Ok, may be we will ear some more "in deep" info some time from now, from someone else, when finally the dust will be settled.

------------------
Adm.Naismith AKA mcostant

[Sten Sture]

Just to attempt to clarify the financial info on Hasbro posted above:

(Hasbro is the parent company of Microprose, and is not involved with Firaxis.)


Hasbro did not post a loss of US$53million; one of their units (interactive) in the Games Division had the loss due to increased development costs for future projects; that loss was more than offset within the Games Division and the company as a whole made a boat load of money.

HASBRO, INC.
CONSOLIDATED STATEMENTS OF EARNINGS

(Thousands of Dollars and Shares Except Per Share Data)

Year_Ended_________1999
Net_Revenues______$4,232,263
Gross_Profit_______2,534,021
R&D__________________711,790
Advertising__________456,978
Administration_______799,919
Nonrecurring_Expenses_64,232
Operating_Profit_____327,569
Interest_Expense______69,340
Other (Income)_______(15,616)
Earnings_Pre_Taxes___273,845
Income_Taxes__________84,892
Net Earnings_________188,953


Add back in the Non-recurring charges (the one-time costs associated with shutting down those two factories and the Spectrum group) and the company made something like $330 million in profits before taxes.

(Edited to clean up table)
[This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited February 09, 2000).]

[yin26]

Markos,

You completely misunderstand the language at times. "Just for fun" means I'm not taking my theories too seriously. This in no way runs counter to my feelings that this situation does indeed suck.

And I'm not quite sure how you came to the conlusion that Dinos is somehow more developed than Civ3. Last time I read the diary, they were still deciding the most basic aspects of the game. If, in fact, Dinos is more developed than Civ3, it was BY CHOICE.

And that's my point. Firaxis is choosing to focus on Dinos over Civ3, and this seems to me a huge mistake.

So, IMHO, get a new comeback ready.
[This message has been edited by yin26 (edited February 10, 2000).]

[don Don]

Brian left because… the "Mind Worms" told him to while he was eating his Wheaties one morning.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Well, until Brian or Sid speaks, I can't speculate on anything. But I don't think that Dinos will come out before Civ3. No chance!

[MarkG]

yin, just because you read a generic diary on "scenario vs big world", it doesnt mean they havent made the decision months ago

the diaries are not there so that firaxis gets public feedback before deciding but just to gave a "view from the inside"....

how's that for a comeback?

[yin26]

Sure, I guess if they are playing some weird public relations lie, you have a point.

"Ha! Dinos is ALMOST finished, but let's throw them off the trail by doing something in the diary about how we haven't even decided if this RTS or TBS or what kind of engine we'll be using! Brilliant!"

Beyond that, you missed my point again.

1. Let's assume Dinos IS ahead of development in relation to Civ3.

2. Civ3 is by most any measure (except Sid's and maybe MarkG's) more important than Dinos.

3. Firaxis wins the right to do Civ3.

4. Dinos should be put on hold or a smaller team should work on it while pretty artwork and diaries ALSO look at Civ3.

5. Civ3 becomes your flagship game--as it should be. Dinos comes out later (hell, earlier even if it's near finished. That doesn't matter).

Do you understand? I'm not arguing with you about which game is more developed (which neither of us can possibly know, by the way). I'm arguing about which game is more important and will make the company more money.

If you think that's Dino's, then I can agree to disagree with you. But if you agree with me that Civ3 is more important than Dinos, how can you NOT understand that pushing Civ3 to the background while you rev up Dinos is a bad decision? Perhaps you think Civ3 hasn't been pushed to the background and it's coming along just fine. Again, neither of us can know that for sure, but I can most certainly look at their website and the loss of Civ3's lead designer and say:

"Hmmm. It sure does seem like Dino's is getting all the attention."

It's a common sense observation, Markos. Argue with me if you like.

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 02-10-2000 08:54 AM "Ha! Dinos is ALMOST finished, but let's throw them off the trail by doing something in the diary about how we haven't even decided if this RTS or TBS or what kind of engine we'll be using! Brilliant!"

not presenting your choice for dino in the rts/tbs issue doesnt mean you havent made that decision.

quote: I'm not arguing with you about which game is more developed (which neither of us can possibly know, by the way).

I have given some points on how dino could be much ahead from civ3

quote: I'm arguing about which game is more important and will make the company more money

sure it is civ3. but have you thought of the possibility that civ3 is so far away from release that hyping it would be just wrong? or the possibility that there is nothing, not even one decent screenshot to show us?

quote: pushing Civ3 to the background while you rev up Dinos is a bad decision?

it is almost crazy to think that firaxis could hype civ3 like dino during THIS period and is not doing it cause suddenly Sid doesnt give a #$@# for the civ series

[yin26]

Well, you obviously have information that I don't have. It was my impression that Civ3 has been in the works with at least a moderate team for a while now and that Dinos was more or less in the idea phase.

Nevertheless, as we both agree, Civ3 is the more important game.

[yin26]

Well, Tim's post cleared most of these questions up for me. If Dinos is, in fact, going to be released before Civ3 AND if Civ3 has the kind of attention being given to it that Tim describes, I can understand the situation. Prior to his post, though, the public image looked quite different.

[MarkG]

no special information...

based on the old Sid-Brian model(where on worked on a game while the other was working on various ideas for the next), Sid has been playing around with the dino idea since the time smac was under development...

anyway, check the Tim Train thread. some really... animating(against our concerns) information...

[MarkG]

saw your second post after replying...

yes, without today's posting here and of the faq, one could really wonder what the #%^@$& was going on....

[Robert]

I think the idea Firaxis had behind Civ3 and Dino is clear.

Brian Reynolds: Civ3
Sid Meyer: Dino

2 great names working on 2 great games.

Since Sid works on Dino and Dino gets slightly more attention, we get the idea that Dino is as important as Civ3.

If they would've done it different, pherhaps puttinb Brian on Dino and Sid on civ3, and then give Civ more attention, we would have gotten the idea:

"Firaxis is working on Civ3 and another game"
Right now all eyes are on Firaxis since they're going to release 2 GREAT NEW GAMES.

In Q3 we'll get the civ3 release date.
Then all eyes are on Firaxis very much. Releasing Dino during this 'post-civ3-release' period will mean Dino get MUCH attention. MUCH more then if it'll be released after civ3.

And since Dino is released before civ3, after dino all eyes will keep focussed on Firaxis becuase Civ3 is getting close in Q4.

Then after Civ3 is released a SMAC patch will be released, or pherhaps even a 2nd addon / standalone version.
This new SMAC version will be linked to Dino and Civ3 and get publicity again.

it's really not that weird I think.

CyberShy

[yin26]

Cybershy,

That's a good point from a "draw more attention to the game that might not sell as well because Civ3 is money in the bank" point of view, and you may well be right. And even if Dinos is a total loss, they'll have enough to work on until Civ3 is out, so I suppose they don't have much to lose by doing Dinos first in any event.

Of course, it might just be simply that Dinos is closer to being ready. Period. No complex thought-process. Pure timing.

What I was saying is that, based on the outward view (before Tim's post), Dinos looked like it was only in the most basic stages, that Sid had this "idea" but not much else besides some artwork and some diaries. On the other hand, we KNEW that Civ3 was already well under development.

Keep in mind that until recently, Firaxis did not have enough employees to split into two teams. We know now they have 27 employees working on both games. Prior to knowing that, the only logical conclusion was that Civ3, which seemed further along, had lost it lead designer and was pushed to the background in order to put more of the team on Dinos.

According to Tim, this wasn't and isn't the case. Fair enough. HAD that been the case, I think we could all agree doing such a thing would be a mistake. That's all I was saying.

[Robert]

I agree on that with you

Did you got any comment on 'the list part 2' from Firaxis ? Since Brian pherhaps never read it ?