what's so tactical about RON?

[etz]

Hi, i'm a newb so please be gentle... ;-)
RON is really a great game, no doubt of it, however
lets compare the game with what I consider masterpieces of the RTS genre, the Total War series like Shogun and Medieval (Rome slurp!!!). To me it seems RON focuses quite a lot on "pumping up" lots of power before actually crashing the enemy due to brute force. For example, in CTW you get these "Tactical" maps where you have no city and you need to destroy the enemy's camp. Now come on, how tactical can you get with this game? Don't you find these kind of maps to be the easiest ones (mind you I have yet to try with AI on tough difficulty... does it ambush you? Don't think so...). What I think the game is missing in some way is exactly the "tactics" element. Example: as read in other threads, what is the cavalry good for? Lure enemies in range of fortresses! Now come on, does this really represent how cavalry was used in the ancient times? Couldn't the AI (AI, AI always the AI is the pblm) be a little more smart? Do towers or archers get bonus range by being on a higher level ? At least "cross the river" penalties" are present! I am not saying the game is not appreciated, myself have been playing for whole nights, but it is obvious that RON focuses on the perfect way of pumping up that power (the TAB key is getting VERY HOT on my keyb!) rather than the perfect way of managing your army. Well, my thoughts are now public, what's you opinion?

[Panzeh]

I'm working on a mod that will likely make enlightenment age combat more tactical. Of course, there will be no bases or anything.

[etz]

Wow, really? That sounds interesting... Perhaps you couls tell me (us) more about it? Got a web page? Cheers...

[Panzeh]

I made infantry kill each other much more slowly, gave them a slightly shorter range, and made artillery a 2-gun per unit sort of deal, giving them much more damage.

There is a high ground, river, flanking, and rocky bonus, but they are far too minimal to really matter. I edited those to be stronger. I also made cavalry have a full flanking bonus and higher attack but a lower hp.

I'm going to see about making every civ the 'americans' so infantry will entrench. I figured out how to make the bonus slower.

[Eyecare]

I've played MTW, Viking Invasion and Shogun. These game focus a great deal on tactics with less emphasis on economic development and upgrades. These games aren't also truely RTS games though. The AI is also relatively weak. Nonetheless, they are interesting to play, especially if you can master the controls.
RoN does have tactics as well but what you'll see will vary by the quality of opposition you play against. Cavalry are most effective against light infantry and archers btw. You can use them to "bait and trap" due to their speed but that's not the only way to use them. Heavy infantry will destroy even the most armored cavalry fairly quickly. Archers destroy heavy infantry and so forth. You get bonuses for using generals, for being on higher ground or on rocks and get penalized for river crossing. Forts and towers can shoot farther with upgrades and generals. You will even play some scenarios in CtW where the AI ambushes you.
There is much to learn grasshopper. Keep playing and you will see.

[yin26]

(I realize I'm joining the party late, but I couldn't pass up the $30 gold edition!)

As a fan of both games, I can say that the tactical element of Rome: Total War actually makes the game a bit easier in some respects, mainly due to routing. For example, if you hit advancing infantry hard with cav. and missiles (oh, and love the war dogs!), you can often send the enemy (at least barbarian hordes, etc.) into a routing spiral. On the one hand, I guess you could say "Yes, but that's just good tactics." O.K. But the gameplay suffers IMO. I'm watching, though, for the mods to catch up to the latest patch to see any improvement.

With RON, there are no routing issues. Units fight until they die. This means that a brute force attack from the AI is far more likely to succeed (again, if you were able in Rome: Total War to keep your guys from routing, which is generally not too hard a challenge). It's true, however, that the blob in the middle of the screen syndrome does present itself, and the AI (even on tough) isn't generally smart about doing much but trying to win by brute force...but the scenarios (esp. in the ex. pack) are really clever, the UI is outstanding (Rome: TW is abysmal in this regard frankly), and it just has so many Civ elements that it's a joy to play.

For my money, though, the best RTS so far to combine these elements in just the right mix (including history) is Grettysburg! Man, that game is something else in terms of flaking, morale, ambushes, the whole thing. Genius. Of course, there aren't the clever scenarios and almost unlimited reply you get in RON, but for what it tries to do, it's tough to top.

[Broken_Erika]

AI seems to be the #1 problem in most games,
the AI in Empire Earth wasn't particularly bright either

[TWC_AscaloN]

Try playing online -_-

[Prot]

For me, it is almost all about building the best economy before I strike, but then again, I only play Modern and Information Age.

The battles in Rise of Nations, at least for me, seem to be about building a huge and balanced striking force, lots of bombers(if their available), and striking from a point of economic power so you can keep sending troops to the front from hopefully forward training bases.

The balanced strike force I speak of must also be very fast. I only build light infantry, tanks, and helicopters. The helicopters are essential because even outnumbering enemy tanks 5-1 it can take a long time to kill them, but choppers go through them like an ICBM through an infantry rush. Note that in my super fast wars you shouldn't bring along ANY alow units like anti-tank infantry or artillerey, EXCEPT anti-air mobile units.

Use bombers for taking down cities and troop producing buildings and if possible, economic infrastructure.

As you can see, my plan calls for very little tactics, but lots of zerging and bombing. Think Soviet.

[etz]

Originally posted by Broken_Erika
AI seems to be the #1 problem in most games,
the AI in Empire Earth wasn't particularly bright either

Not bright buy nonetheless quite sneaky... :-) Not so bad all in all.

etz

[MANSQUITO]

Originally posted by TWC_AscaloN
Try playing online -_-

I know this is an old post, but I am giong thru the forum here.

Playing against people like Ascalon, you wont make it to nukes or planes. I am not sure if we would make it to Enlightment.

RON is a great game, very tactical when going thru the ages. AI is too easy to beat. You do have to go online for the better games.