Getting *ss wiped in tougher

[buizzz]

I simply don't get it. Using all the tricks and tips that can be found in this forum, optimising my play down to every mouseclick, extensively using pause when decisions have to be made, I still get my *ss wiped come gunpowder age by the AI systematically on 'tougher'.

playing 1vs1 on random map, playing bantu (like the boom possibilities).

I have attached a replay of when I get wiped and I guess from that the hardcore ones of you should be able to see wtf I am doing wrong...?

just so you know, this is not an exceptional game of mine, every single one ends about like this one, have tried about 20 times by now.

Any comments are welcome......

[solo]

I tried downloading and viewing but the game would not play it, returning me to the previous menu instead. This may be because I have not installed any of the game patches yet, so my question to you is whether you have done this?

[Lord Sun Ce]

Try playing with comp allies- they can take some hits for you. And, if they have a higher score than you, then your enemies will attack thewm instead of you. This way you can see how and where the comp likes to attack from, and see how you can change how you set up your beginning econ to counter-act their strategies. Hope this helps and good luck.

[Signa]

Yes, try and avoid getting ahead on score. That paints to bullseye on you and you alone. If you HAVE to be ahead in points try and get the Kremlin (its a nice wonder for your economy anyway and the attrition helps) and target enemy Supply crap with Fighters or arty. Good luck, I'll look at the replay...

[Grond]

Download doesn't work. Try again.

[buizzz]

tried re-uploading a recorded game. remember to unzip first...

Your comments about playing against more than one AI I guess make sense, but it should be possible to win still in a 1vs1?

Again, had I been a total newbie I'd accept that I couldn't beat it -- afterall it is well known that the difficulty levels in RON are particularly ruthless -- but having tried abt 20 times now and really (in my opinion) optimising the play down to the last mouseclick I stil don't get it....

You speak about getting ahead on score -- come gunpowder age the AI is systematically at least 50% higher on points that I am -- which just really proves to me that I am being completely left behind.

Anyway, have a look-see and let me know your comments.

[Ctulu]

I won on thougher by turtling and playing devensive early on, saving hard needed resources for unit upgrades for a later age and disturbing the AI's economy as often as possible.

[skink]

While I'm not an expert, I do win on tougher most of the time. Here are a couple comments on your replay:

- You waited a very long time before getting metal/mining and a university after getting to Age II. I typically get a mine going and a university immediately after Age II to start building up those resources.

- I usually get a tower up fairly early & research attrition techs. You allowed the AI to stay a long time in your territory with no attrition. I generally don't build up a standing army until later than you did, especially on as large a map as you played on. Like a previous poster, I tend to turtle until I have a solid economy and take time to slowly build up a large invasion force.

- You didn't take advantage of the sea -- get a dock up and fish (doesn't count against your pop limit IIRC) and get those ruins on the island.

- I generally only build 1 or 2 granaries or lumber mills. You seemed food-heavy but neglected metal until late.

- You gave up too easily I think with more defensive play you can hold off the AI for quite a while and I think you could've come back in a later Age and won. Get some seige built to counterattack his attacks on your towers, get a fort built for general and spy bonuses etc. It's a somewhat difficult map to play on since you're stretched between two fronts far apart.

[solo]

Thanks for posting the newest replay which worked fine.

In addition to the points made in the previous post, I think the thing that held you up the most in the earliest part of the game was the way and order in which you did your research.

The best time to learn a new tech is just before you have a need for it. Otherwise, it's better to use resources for more current and vital needs.

You researched Civics I right at the beginning and then waited a few minutes before founding your second city. I think the food used for this research could have been put to better use at that time. Civics would have been 10% cheaper, too, if you had preceded it by Science I, which you researched immediately afterwards.

The next thing you researched was Classical, followed immediately by Commerce I. Then you waited a long time before doing anything about the new things made available by the age advance. Researching Classical too early delayed the immediate benefits that would have been available by obtaining Commerce I a bit earlier and pre-empted resources that could have been used for more immediate needs.

As a consequence, note that your AI opponent had a market and trade route going by the 3 minute mark, and that you were still building your first market, 2 minutes later. Some of the delay can be attributed to the 25% AI gathering bonus in Tougher, but the timing and order of your research helped put you behind, too.

[Grond]

Your economy is fine except your iron output was way too low. You need to work on combat, you often had the worst troops fighting the AI, counters make a huge difference. You also didn't have Generals or spies. The Generals upgrade increases the defense off units considerably and spies can turn a losing battle into a winning battle and are invaluable for bribing siege units until the AI makes Commandos. Towers should go next to towns only and if you under siege make sure to have 2 ranged units in the town and 2 in the tower. Also make more cavalry and flank with them at a 90 degree angle.

[buizzz]

thanks for the advice guys, I am definitely seeing an improvement in my game, though I am still getting beaten systematically.

In my last game on tougher the computer reached the fifth age while I was still in the third. He was border pushing me quite heavily in the end, and I tried a desperate attack, to no avail. I have attached a replay so you can see how it goes.

Maybe it is not possible to win on a small (2-3 player) map? Could it be that the AI's 25% resource advantage simply is too much of an advantage on a small map? Could it also be that when playing 1vs1 and thereby having the AI's full attention, that 'tougher' is not possible to win on? Or am I just a whiner...?

have any of you won in this type of game?

[solo]

buizz,

Next time you begin a game save the start and post it here. Maybe some of us will play a game using it and we can compare results and strategy afterwards.

[Grond]

Once again I couldn't get the playback to work.

[buizzz]

hm, gotta be careful not to become a whiner with this game, but check out the replay I have attached here. The AI completely wipes me out, winning almost simultaneously on territory, wonder, capital conquer and complete wipe-out.

I unfortunately forgot to save the starting point, but I still welcome any comments and tips you can give me based on the replay.

Its quite amazing, but I refuse to go down a difficulty level, it is becoming a matter of personal honour against this game.

The AI outpaces me on score, tech and unit count from the very outset, and I never am able to catch up.

I will try one last time, and this time remember to save the starting point so that you guys can have a go at it as well.


(attachment removed in edit, since apparently the wrong replay -- can't seem to find the right one, sorry)

[solo]

buizz,

This replay works, but I'm not sure it's the one you meant to post. In this one all you do is build 5 farms and set up 9 woodcutters, and just let resources accumulate for the next 12 minutes until the AI captured your capital! I must assume that this was a replay of another game you started and left running unattended due to some sort of interruption.