Unable to keep captured cities

[morandi]

I'm having great problems capturing and above all keeping those cities.

What usually happens [ having researched all tech levels and everything else ] is that I have 5 or 6 cities - the enemy usually 5, fairly close together. Mine are spread out over more territory as the enemy AI doesn't seem interested in territory expansion. [ Why is that?]. Does the fact that the enemy cities are close together give him an advantage?

So I have only about 50 units at my disposal by this time. I use air, cruise missiles and ground forces [ tanks and seige etc but no infantary - with the fast pace of the battles they are impossible to control, so I can't use, say for example, the spy - even if I knew where to send him and with which task]. Once I've captured and assimilated an enemy city, usually with great loss to my own forces, I build more but the enemy usually builds his first. He wins the city back, then in a few minutes I might win it back again but because of the loses involved I lose it again. So the game goes backwards and forwards, to and fro, me ahead then PC ahead seemingly with no winning end in sight so I continue like that until I get fed up and quit the game. I've played many games but haven't won one [ well, I used to win in the demo with Wonder points or 70% territory but those conditions are too restricting when all I want military victory].

I find that one practical reason for this is the difficulty of bookmarks. I don't know if it's just me but I find the PC doesn't seem very quick or responsive to bookmarks [ crtl + F1 -F9 right?? ]. Not as easy as AOM or C&C Generals anyway. I find I can't easily bookmark my factory, airfield etc and the enemy buildings I want to take down. This means that while I'm attacking the city, I can't easily attack the buildings the enemy is producing his units from. I have to use the mouse to move over the map from one place to another which is not very efficient, takes time and adds to my loses as the enemy is quite happily producing units while I'm trying to look around for my factories, missiles etc to aim my units at his factories, airfields and so on.

The enemy seems to have 5 cities, close together, with the bare minimum of resources [farms, mines, oilfields etc -does it cheat ?] and yet still manages to research and produce all the best weapons etc. Strangely quickly too.

I usually play easy level, fast and cheap tech, 90% territory, no wonder victory, otherwise standard victory conditions. As I mentioned earlier, it seems irrelevant in the heat of battle which nations are involved.
All I want to be able to do is capture and keep his cities and win militarily. Ideally by capturing his capital but unless someone can let me know what I'm doing wrong, it's never going to happen.

I really really do want to like this game but the idea of going through the repetitive rigmarole of researching everything merely to get to the stage of having researched everthing to play a "quick battle" with the prospect of an unwinnable interminable battle ahead of me is becoming less and less appealing.

And as for CTW, I'm on to my second mission during which I have to do something - I forget what exactly, but I have to do it for 2 whole hours. Something to put off as long as possible I think.

It's a pity that neither of the official web sites [ especially BHG ] see fit to provide us with an official forum. Which is where I'd post this if I could. I just hope that someone has some suggestions as to what I'm doing wrong. Or at least let me know where I can find more info on this rather important particular aspect of the game.

[Bridger]

Well there's your problem right there, the only way to capture cities is with INFANTRY. Tanks don't capture cities. If you keep "loosing" the city after you capture it, that's because you have no infantry to hold it.

You need more infantry than he has infantry+forts/towers (fort counts as 10 and tower counts as 5).

In order to hold a city the best thing you can do is bring in 4-6 civilians the INSTANT you capture the city and have them start repairing it durring the assimilation process. If you repair it even the smallest ammount, he has to knock it back down to get it back.

Also, if you posted a recorded game it would give me more insight into what your doing wrong.

[KenR7A]

[SIZE=1]

You need more infantry than he has infantry+forts/towers (fort counts as 10 and tower counts as 5).

no way! so it would be smart to build a fort right to your capitol?

[Bridger]

Yes, forts count as 10 infantry when it comes to capturing cities. So if you have 1 fort and 2 towers (inside the city radius!) thenthe enemy needs at least 20 infantry units to take the city (or he could simply seige the fort/towers). Building a fort next to your capitol is probably a little strong, because if the enemy is knocking on your door then your probably lost anyway. 1-2 towers at your capitol is always a good idea to protect against sneak attacks.

[morandi]

Thanks for the info about the infantry - I guess the cities I've been able to capture was due to the civilians I brought in to repair them.

I would like to include a recorded game as it shows exactly my problem. But the forum doesn't accept the .rec file type and I don't know how to change it to zip file.

[Carch]

ctrl 0-9 and f1-f10 will set bookmarks. You can bookmark multiple buildings at once, which is reallly handy for multiple barracks -- hit the bookmark for all your barracks and pump out 2 or 3 units simultaneously without moving the screen.

Set rally points on your generals.

Also, there's no shame in pausing or slowing down the game if it's overwhelming you. This game is tactically much more challenging than Generals, for example, and the AI is MUCH more challenging than pretty much any other RTS.

[V'ger]

Hi,

I feel your pain. I don't control-group my buildings. I need all the groups I can get for units. I just use the hotkeys, every building has one: K for barracks, S for Stables, O for Siege. Set my flags where I want them to appear and presto. All without moving the screen.

BTW, that's an excellent tip about setting the rally point to be a unit. I hadn't thought of that. From now on my supply trucks will be my rally points.

And, for Pete's sake, man, use the PAUSE key! I can't imagine playing without it. Actually, that makes RoN one of only 3 RTS games I've ever played extensively. One was TA, the other was Starcraft, which I played in spite of a lack of the pause feature (a pause where you can issue orders, that is).

Also, once you have a town and are repairing, order some of your troops (I usually choose cav for this) PAST the city to an area just a little beyond it. This keeps the fight away from the city you're trying to assimilate. (BTW, I play on Moderate, so this stuff should work for you.)

Also, and forgive me for stating the obvious, but don't make units you don't need, like scads of civies to work every farm and mine. After upgrades, you only need 3 cities in full production of all resources, except for oil. That could give you another 40 units, if you've been over-producing.

Hope some of this helps.

[morandi]

Many thanks for all the replies.

I guess a lot of the problem is that I go to fast - I'll slow it all down once I get to the stage where everything has been researched.

I managed to upload a recorded games [ I think I did it right ] but I put them in a new thread called
NOT Fair enemy pop cap 250 - which is true as looking at the recorded games from the enemy point of view, his pop cap goes up to 250 while I'm stuck on 200.

The problem I have with bookmarks is that once I've set them, the game doesn't remember them or goes back to the original thing I bookmarked for a particular key. Also, I really have to press the key very hard. The bookmarks I've set also do not show up in the data display button - maybe I've got a faulty copy - I had to phone Microsoft as it wouldn't install more than 26% when I first got the game.

Re making too many civies - I do that deliberately at the beginning of the game to get things built more quickly then when I don't need them anymore I just send them into enemy territory to get killed off. Not very moral but I need all the help I can get and it is only a game.

I also included another game here as I didn't think I could in a reply.

If anyone has a recorded game where Military is paramount [ no Wonder points or just 70% territory, I'd be very interested in seeing it = seeing how it should be done. Easy or Moderate level.

Thanks

[osros]

I been doing the leap frog army approch. I have at least 2 attack size armies. I attack with one and hold the other in reserve if needed. Once the city is taken I place the weakend army in a defense posture in fortified positions. and move up the fresh army to the front to take the next city. As all this is happening I and assembling another army and moving it forward.

This work well on EASY, but Im on Moderate now and it more of a challenge fight off counter attacks with trying to get things done, won a few, lost many..

[bratsch_m]

You need infantry. This game is much different from games such as Command & Conquer where infantry are basically nothing more than fodder. Foot troops usually make up 60% of my army at the very least.

In the C&C line of games tanks were very powerful, and infantry were completely ineffective against them. Here however tanks are not all that overpowered. They are still tough of course, but a purely tank army will not beat a mixed army with fewer tanks.

If your opponent has bazookas and you only have tanks, they will rip through your army. That is also probably a reason why your armies cannot hold the city.

[Hermann the Lombard]

Originally posted by Carch
ctrl 0-9 and f1-f10 will set bookmarks. You can bookmark multiple buildings at once, which is reallly handy for multiple barracks -- hit the bookmark for all your barracks and pump out 2 or 3 units simultaneously without moving the screen.

Set rally points on your generals.

Also, there's no shame in pausing or slowing down the game if it's overwhelming you

It's nice to have 10 more bookmarks than in AoK:TC...if I can remember them! What is the most efficient way to bookmark multiple buildings? I'm still blundering around manually SHIFT-clicking each barracks (or whatever) just to set a common rally point (or approximating it by hitting K then placing a rally point on the minimap.

Is it possible to set a rally point on a group rather than on the general who might get sniped? I was trying to do that in battle last night, but I got busy surviving and didn't notice if it worked.

And as for the pause key, AMEN!

-- HtL, Pause Junkie

[Caesar Brad]

Osros, just wondering you said that you keep 2 attack size armies, what do you consider "attack sized armies"? Because I usually dont have many units to spare whenever I attack, just wonderin.

[Carch]

Originally posted by Hermann the Lombard
It's nice to have 10 more bookmarks than in AoK:TC...if I can remember them! What is the most efficient way to bookmark multiple buildings? I'm still blundering around manually SHIFT-clicking each barracks (or whatever) just to set a common rally point (or approximating it by hitting K then placing a rally point on the minimap.

Is it possible to set a rally point on a group rather than on the general who might get sniped? I was trying to do that in battle last night, but I got busy surviving and didn't notice if it worked.

Try this:

K to select a barracks
HOME to select all barracks
Control-F1

Now F1 selects all barracks for production or rally.

Right click on anything to make it a rally point. (And shame on you for letting your general get sniped--he can outrun a commando )

One nice feature that's missing is that if you've set the rally point to a unit, it's not possible to SEE it. The rally banner should show up on whatever unit is the rally point when you select a building, but it doesn't.

[Bridger]

better yet, shift+K then Control+F1

[osros]

Caesar Brad,

I never really counted it, but more or less it like:

15 - 20 Reg Foot Soliders
10 - 15 Archers or ranged troops
4 - 5 Seige or Arty
20 Light Calvary
5 + Heavy Calvary what ever I have time for.

Thats about it times that by 2 and you have two good
sized armies at least for me. Sometimes its enough sometimes its not so then I bring up the second army
close by. I also ave the second army on a second front.

So one attack fails I an right away attacking from another direction. Also note I use the peace for 20 or
30 Mins feature. This maybe what you may need to build up some before war breaks out.