Are Spies Too Powerful?

[Vince278]

True

[Trachmyr]

I'd have to say that spies are too powerful/frequent.

I'm playing the Evon in one game, have the O-meter set at the highest for my goverment, and have 12+ spies sitting in my queue... and I get hammered every turn... I've yet to have a "Great Leader" live more than 10 turns.

Another problem is that I REALLY don't think the New Orions should send spies against you unless your at war.... I must kill one of their spies every 3 or so turns!

[Arnelos]

The New Orions routinely use spies against whoever is in first place among the other players.

The New Orions do this for a perfectly logical reason... they don't want anyone to become a hegemonic and power and thus, of necessity, challenge the New Orions.

I mean... if you were the New Orions, would you do it?

I don't have any problem with that at all.

[vmxa1]

I have not messed with inserting spies to any big degree, but I did not see any way to tell the spy to steal tech or direct it to do anything. Just drop it in and let it go? Even Moo1 let you hide/steal or sabatoge.

[Trachmyr]

Originally posted by Arnelos
The New Orions routinely use spies against whoever is in first place among the other players.

The New Orions do this for a perfectly logical reason... they don't want anyone to become a hegemonic and power and thus, of necessity, challenge the New Orions.

I mean... if you were the New Orions, would you do it?

I don't have any problem with that at all.

I was under the impression that the NO's did not even percieve the lesser races as a threat.... and were running some great Galactic Darwinism project.

If I was the NO, I would have never let the other races from under my yoke... (or at least conqueor the galaxy within 20 turns). I would also expand... so obviously they are "disinterested" in foreign affairs.

Like I said, If you are at war with them... then their spies should hammer you.... but as it stands now, being in the senate is far more of a problem than not being a member... and that was with the Evon!

So no, I don't think the NO's should spy on senate members they're not at war with.

[Harry Seldon]

You have to read the back story. The NOs are afraid of losing control. That's why they're all over you when you're doing well. I don't think it's necessarily fair that they can insert spies against you when you can't do the same, but that's a post for the bug thread.

[justjake73]

I am on turn 111 of my first game. I currently have DC's with only the Grendarl, and because I'm Nommo they hate me. They are constantly trying to send spies in. I compensated by turning my O meter up a notch and rec. more counterspies.

Here is a summary of what happened in the last 20 or so turns:

They sent in spies, I killed them.

They sent in spies, terrorized my citizens. I killed their spies.


They sent in spies, blew up a building of mine. I sent in a spy successfully. I threatened them, and of course now it's war.

My spy sucessfully blew up 3 buildings before being caught.

Take that, you bastard son of a toad

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Harry Seldon
You have to read the back story. The NOs are afraid of losing control. That's why they're all over you when you're doing well. I don't think it's necessarily fair that they can insert spies against you when you can't do the same, but that's a post for the bug thread.

Baut you can insert spies into the New Orion-Empire.
I already succeeded with it (having an average Technology rating of maybe 35 at this time).
Of course they don´t last very long and it isn´t easy to insert them, but you can do it

[Hydro]

Comments on spies

I had a first in my last Silicoid game – a leader died, of old age! I was completely shocked since the shelf life of previous leaders was measured in turns (say, 5-10).

Maybe the key is that I wasn’t on the Senate. I also created a cadre of political spies and had 5 before the first leader arrived. So, they had lots of protection since I made sure there were at least 4 political spies at all times.

My leaders gave me a big boost and were very important. One was an Evon that reduced unrest and aided diplomacy. A second was a Meklar that aided industry. A third was a Trilarian that aided research. All had a maintenance fee, but who cares – it was worth every AU.

The Trilarian died of old age. Then the Meklar was assassinated, and my Evon leader died of old age. I think the key was the fence of diplomatic spies I had, which did make me vulnerable to other nasty business. Another key is that the New Orions couldn’t mess with me since I haven’t met them. Even with the Silicoids being Slow, I my leaders had a chance. It is likely that I would have had significant problems if I’d been on the Senate.

My conclusions are:
1) Spy problems are manageable with proper precautions, but only if you aren’t on the Senate or in contact with lots of nasty people
2) The life span of leaders should be augmented by reducing the chance of leader assassination, or (as others have suggested) put them in the penalty box while they ‘recover’ from the assassination. This is the only game where leaders have made a difference – and it was a much more fun game than simply waiting for the inevitable message: Your leader Blixabulb isn’t expected to survive the night….

[star mouse]

Spy suggestions

I think the Diplomatic spy is too powerful. (I hope I have that right, the one that kills leaders.)

I would like to see a few things happen:

(1) Allow Counter-espionage spies to be created. These defensive spies cannot be deployed in another empire, but would remain at home to thwart enemy spies.

The defensive spies might work like this. Each turn, they act like one of the other spy types at random in a defensive role. They might also help to extract information from captured spies.

To balance their power, they would take about 8 turns to train, and cost more than any other spy. (A thorough grounding in all spy techniques must take a lot of time).

(2) Diplomatic spies are eliminated, and their assassination function is merged with the Political spy. I would like to keep a leader for longer than a few turns.

[Ancyrean]

By the way, did anyone notice that the "luck" rating of a spy goes down the more you keep him uninserted? What's with that?

Does this mean you either decide to insert spies immediately/in a short while or else make him settle down for a counter-espionage duty? I would appreciate some more flexibility there...

[Proteus_MST]

Re: Spy suggestions

Originally posted by star mouse
I think the Diplomatic spy is too powerful. (I hope I have that right, the one that kills leaders.)

I would like to see a few things happen:

(1) Allow Counter-espionage spies to be created. These defensive spies cannot be deployed in another empire, but would remain at home to thwart enemy spies.

The defensive spies might work like this. Each turn, they act like one of the other spy types at random in a defensive role. They might also help to extract information from captured spies.

To balance their power, they would take about 8 turns to train, and cost more than any other spy. (A thorough grounding in all spy techniques must take a lot of time).

(2) Diplomatic spies are eliminated, and their assassination function is merged with the Political spy. I would like to keep a leader for longer than a few turns.

Oh, the one that kills leaders seems to be the Political spy, at least if the description you can read for all the spies are correct.
The diplomatic spy is the one who destroys administration Buildings.

Originally posted by Ancyrean
By the way, did anyone notice that the "luck" rating of a spy goes down the more you keep him uninserted? What's with that?

Does this mean you either decide to insert spies immediately/in a short while or else make him settle down for a counter-espionage duty? I would appreciate some more flexibility there...

The "Luck"-Value seems to be the Life Expectancy of the Spy.
It goes down every turn and in the end (if it has reached zero or one, don´´t know exactly) the Spy dies or is retired.
AFAIK it has no Influence on this if the Spy is working on Counter espionage or he is infiltrating an enemy empire.

[Ancyrean]

Re: Re: Spy suggestions

Originally posted by Proteus_MST
The "Luck"-Value seems to be the Life Expectancy of the Spy.
It goes down every turn and in the end (if it has reached zero or one, don´´t know exactly) the Spy dies or is retired.
AFAIK it has no Influence on this if the Spy is working on Counter espionage or he is infiltrating an enemy empire.

Thanks for the clarification, Proteus

I assumed the "luck" factor was connected with the chance of the spy to be succesful upon insertion. I don't know why the game designers called it "luck", anyway...