Worst fears coming true: Quarter to Three Review

[lockstep]

Originally posted by vee4473
Civ had governors of course, but you could due without 'em.

A) You HAD to do without them because they were dumb. (Most reviewers and beta-testers seem to agree that this is not the case with Moo3's development-plan-guided viceroys).

B) Because you had to do without governors in Civ3 (and because adding items to multiple build-queues with a single command wasn't possible, unlike in CtP2), the typical Civ endgame wasn't fun, at least not for me.

[OmniDude]

Haven't this subject been discussed to death by now?
Or am I just getting old and indifferent and have forgotten what it's like to really feel strongly about just about everything?

To me Arnelos' advise to CT was right on the money (not that he's the first to come up with that one) and I'll chill for now and make sure to get some fresh air and stock up on supplies before MOO-day.
And sorta like the allied soldiers just before D-day, I anticipate the day with mixed fellings of fear and exitement (allright, I know, that's taking it over the top, forgive me )

edit: typo

[vee4473]

Originally posted by lockstep


A) You HAD to do without them because they were dumb. (Most reviewers and beta-testers seem to agree that this is not the case with Moo3's development-guided viceroys).

B) Because you had to do without governors in Civ3 (and because adding items to multiple build-queues with a single command wasn't possible, unlike in CtP2), the typical Civ endgame wasn't fun, at least not for me.

The dumbness of the governers isn't the issue.

In civ, you could effectively enjoy the game and manage your cities without the governers...if you didn't like what they were doing.


It seems that in moo3, and from leiavoia's comments, that you have no choice but to engage the "governers" whether you agree with their decisions or not....or else face a micromanagement hellfire.

civ kept the game enjoyable without governers if you didn't like them, moo3 seems to make them mandatory whether you like 'em or not.

that was my only point.

[lockstep]

Originally posted by vee4473
civ kept the game enjoyable without governers if you didn't like them, moo3 seems to make them mandatory whether you like 'em or not.

In the end, 'mandatory' use of governors may be dependend on the scale of the world/galaxy. Civ3's 'standard' world size - with room for about 100 cities - did not keep the endgame enjoyable for me. I'm fairly sure that a) this 'paralysing endgame' syndrome is a common criticism of nearly all TBS games (with the original MoO as a possible exception) and b) the majority of fans nevertheless wants BIGGER worlds, more items to build etc. So MoO3's design take - viceroys that handle 'mundane' tasks in a competent manner while the player concentrates on the 'big picture' - may be the best innovation that the TBS genre has seen in a long time.

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
I looked at the same screenies, and it seems to have been simplified. Like the reviewer says.

The only simplification I see is that everything is in one list, instead of separate lists for weapons and specials. Doesn't seem like much of a simplification for me. Plus, you didn't used to have to pick what the "role" of a ship was.

[vee4473]

i will wait to see if your theory is true lockstep. (that moo3's take on the potential endgame micro hell is successful)

let's just hope that their take doesn't cripple the player in the early game as well.

or make the players' decisions secondary to an AI controlled empire.

I want the game to be great. Just posting my opinions, and why I think CT has a point here.

yay yay yay

huh?

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by XentWraith
It was my impression that QS wanted to make MOO accessible to more people. For that reason, apparently, certain elements were added to the game... let's recall for a second what a few of those items are:

- Real time combat (yuppee in 3D)
- AIs that handle everything
- 3D star map (why?)

Real-time combat and good AIs are things that address the major weaknesses of MoO2: Combat bogs as it scales up, and end-game micromanagement is a bore. Claiming that they're "to make MOO accessible to more people" unfairly omits the real value they offer to gameplay.

[vee4473]

oh, and i'm waiting for gamespot's review!!!

can't wait! that'll be my yardstick.

heh.

kidding, but I am interested in their review. I haven't agreed with all their reviews, but i'm curious...if it ever appears.

[booje]

Can anybody find in Chick's review the part where he specifically says that he won a "two games" or any games at all just from hitting the "end turn" button?

[Spectrex]

It seems like some of you are arguing just for the sake of argument. If you don't want to use the governors, you DON'T HAVE TO! You are not "forced" to use them in ANY WAY. You can step in whenever you want to and micromanage to your heart's content, as little or as much as you want. The average gamer, however (even the average hard-core strategy gamer) won't want to spend two hours checking every single production queue of every single planet, every turn. If you for some reason want to do this, you can. I really don't know how people could be missing this, it's been a feature right since IFPs were taken out (BTW: If IFPs had been left in, all your fears would have come true).

Tom Chick's problem is he failed to understand:

1. How to turn off the AI ("forced to use it")
2. How to customize the AI and give it direction

In other words, he didn't bother to learn how to play the game and couldn't see past the graphics (not up to Homeworld standards, I guess) and poor documentation (this is less excusable...).

[JonahFalcon]

WHAT game have you played? My FINAL VERSION viceroys have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER changed my build queue nor my DEA build list on stuff *I* have ordered. What drugs are you on?

Plus, development plans are a HUGE PART OF THE GAME!

Did Tom ever TRY to use development plans? That's where you assign tasks to the AI depending on your taste.

Here is a screenshot:

http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/features/moo3/images/moo3_12.jpg

This is a HUGE PART OF THE GAME.

I love it when people who have never played the game try to tell me how the game plays. LOL

[vee4473]

Originally posted by Spectrex
It seems like some of you are arguing just for the sake of argument. If you don't want to use the governors, you DON'T HAVE TO! You are not "forced" to use them in ANY WAY. You can step in whenever you want to and micromanage to your heart's content, as little or as much as you want. The average gamer, however (even the average hard-core strategy gamer) won't want to spend two hours checking every single production queue of every single planet, every turn. If you for some reason want to do this, you can. I really don't know how people could be missing this, it's been a feature right since IFPs were taken out (BTW: If IFPs had been left in, all your fears would have come true).

Tom Chick's problem is he failed to understand:

1. How to turn off the AI ("forced to use it")
2. How to customize the AI and give it direction

In other words, he didn't bother to learn how to play the game and couldn't see past the graphics (not up to Homeworld standards, I guess) and poor documentation (this is less excusable...).

i "failed" to recognize this when i read Tom's review and he said that turning the ai off did not change much. When he said that the ai is the driving force in the game. The player is secondary.

Maybe i am a victim of his lies as some of you have stated. But he said that , in his experience with the game, you cannot turn the the ai off to much effect.

I'm reacting to Tom's review.

We shall see.

[vee4473]

Originally posted by JonahFalcon
WHAT game have you played? My FINAL VERSION viceroys have NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER changed my build queue nor my DEA build list. What drugs are you on?

once again, Tom Chick says otherwise.

no one can know who's giving an honest description.

i'm done here.

i await the forum poster's reviews.

[JonahFalcon]

Again:

http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/features/moo3/images/moo3_12.jpg

The game is not driven by AI. You drive and influence the AI. However, when you MAKE A BUILD QUEUE or MAKE A DEA BUILD ORDER, the AI will NEVER countermand you.

Plus, there are a ton of buttons to press. You can tell the AI to save money, spend it, or a median of both.

The fact is, this is a EMPIRE BUILDING GAME. You DON'T have the ability to tell 200 planets under your power what to do, unless you savor severe micromanagement.

The concept is too advanced for Tom. heh

[Sarxis]

I do savor micromanagement.

But all I want to know Jonah: do you like the game? Is it fun? Is it great?