In-House Preview Online: Part 2

[DanQ]

GP,

It is interesting, isn't it -- how much easier it is to criticize the work of another rather than to actually accomplish something yourself? Besides, "me thinks thou dost protest too much" here.

In future, I will consider the source of the criticism and ignore it. We should both be happier that way.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

[Craig P.]

Originally posted by LDiCesare As for MP, if it provides a definite advantage to be or not to be part of the Senate, then that's one more ransom factor that I'd rather get rid of. Having bad starting position is already hard enough. If you are stuck with no contact or lose 10(!) picks, then you will be easy prey to your neighbours.

Whether it's an advantage to start in the Senate or not start in the Senate is supposed to depend on your race and preferred strategy. That's why the default is random -- the game doesn't know which is better for you, so if it matters, you're supposed to take the ten picks and set it for yourself.

[grinningman]

Originally posted by DanQ
GP,

It is interesting, isn't it -- how much easier it is to criticize the work of another rather than to actually accomplish something yourself? Besides, "me thinks thou dost protest too much" here.

In future, I will consider the source of the criticism and ignore it. We should both be happier that way.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

For what it's worth, I agree with GP's criticism, although I think s/he was needlessly confrontational in delivering it.

I found the (unnecessary, IMO) wordiness of the preview made it more difficult to read. Please take this as constructive criticism and a response to your request for feedback.

Criticisms aside, thanks for going to the trouble of writing the previews, and for maintaining this excellent site!

Grinning man

*edit: I have trouble spelling long words *

[ruitodobom]

Well Dan... THAT is a real preveiw! Thanks for the info, Lots of new stuff to me....!

[TCO]

Originally posted by DanQ
GP,

It is interesting, isn't it -- how much easier it is to criticize the work of another rather than to actually accomplish something yourself? Besides, "me thinks thou dost protest too much" here.

In future, I will consider the source of the criticism and ignore it. We should both be happier that way.

------------
Dan; Apolyton CS

Yes. It is better to accomplish than to criticize, Dan. That's not the point though. I'm not saying I'm better than you. Or indicting your overall performance. Just telling you that the wordiness is gawdawful. And it is.

There is no reason to ignore the criticism because of the source. Yes, I am overly acerbic. And you should discount some trolls from me. But I'm also older and wiser and have read Strunk and White. And I'm right about your style. The sooner fixed, the better.

[Jack Frost]

I can't believe the thread here is so much positive feedback. I don't actually think the style was such a problem as much as the material you decided to go over.

I found the first preview frustrating, and a tease. I figured this was intentional to build expectations. But with a second 6 page tease going over what is basicly the same material in the first +3 screen shots ...which we've gotten a walk through.. I have decided that you never actually recieved a preview version and are simply reviewing a manual you somehow got your hands on + some screen shots, and are just stalling till release.

You need to get to something interesting, I'm quickly losing interest in this. And you have already wasted 1/3 of the preview without even starting on anything involving... the game?

Like the guy 10 pages back said, "saying +5 industrial points instead of +.5 doesn't really matter much because I don't know what industrial points are". And pasting the tables might be interesting to you, but none of us know what they mean or what reasonable effects they have on the game. You picking all the default selections and human is meaningless to us.

I donno what to suggest. But to explain to you the reason you personally are getting **** is because the preview itself is bad and the statement: "Academically, half of the double major Honours B.A. degree I am currently pursuing" this simply does not belong in a preview, especially such a poor one. We do not care about you. Like a penis in a porno, you are only a prop through which we are trying to imagine an experience.

But I mean come on "half of the double major Honours B.A." .... you were asking for it.

[Jack Frost]

ok, I got the problem. Reading this is like being able to read 6 pages in the manual weekly.

[Alex]

Bah, I like the preview. Nice work, Dan.

[MarkG]

There is no reason to ignore the criticism because of the source.

after several occasions of the same behaviour GP, you realise that you have better things to do than try to make a psychological analysis of the "source" in order to figure out his intentions. opinions should not have to be followed with disclaimers("be aware, some trolling ahead, ignore some of it")....

in short, your trolling has become extremely tiring....

[DanQ]

I would first like to thank those who have sent me emails and posted positive comments and/or constructive criticisms to date.

re: # of races in a single game
I have eliminated that reference. I apologize for the unintentional mislead here.

re: Page 4, first paragraph typo
Thanks for pointing this out, Trachmyr.

Originally posted by Gamble

Two errors I happen to remember... it's "lest you regret it later", not "least". And it says "+.5" as manufacturing production bonus for Natural Engineers. The text states +5.

Thanks for pointing these errors out, Gamble -- they were typos on my part and I have corrected them.

These useful criticisms are appreciated as always.

Because of the volume of material covered, I can understand where the comments regarding "wordiness" are coming from. You may find it helpful to read future installments on a piecemeal basis to avoid further frustration along these lines.

If you find that even this approach is not helpful, you can always skip directly to the screenshots.

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Dan; Apolyton CS

[Gamble]

Though I can't be certain, I see my earler post here possibly being misused or simply misunderstood. In any case I feel the need to clarify that I hope you gave the portion of it which you didn't quote a greater amount of consideration.

I'm glad I was able to be as diplomatic as I tried to be, and that you found the parts which you did repeat helpful, but I see them as mere corrections. To me constructive criticism is at least always open to some thought or debate. There can be no debate about those errors you made. Meaning again that they were not the point of my criticism.

Also you say "Because of the volume of material covered...", but, simply being objective here, the problem some of us seem to have is that you covered too little/too insignificant material, and poorly so. Gladly would I endeavor to do it better myself, alas I doubt you'll be sending a copy to everyone who'd be willing to do so.

[Craig P.]

I don't think the amount of material really has anything to do with it, it's more that some of the sentence constructions aren't all that easy to parse.

(And in fairness, I've been known to construct some tortured sentences in my time.)

[Jack Frost]

yeah, hey I'm sorry if i was a little bit overly harsh. I'm on day 4 of quitting smoking and minor things are really getting on my nerves.

But I see your preview (since its very in depth and will potentially be about 36 pages) as the best hope for me finding out what the game is really like before release.

Unfortionatly with 12 pages down and 24 to go, I still feel like I don't know anything about the actual game. I know there are some races, they have some properties that can be changed, and there are different map generation settings.

I really don't know how much the racial choices you make influence the game, I don't know how much of a different game you will be playing if you choose to play a trader/peace race against a technology hogging industrial based race. Or does trading and technology basicly equal the same thing ala civ3 where trade points go into technology?

What real effect do the decisions you have at your disposal effect the game play. And what kind of real range is offered. What space is there to develop a peaceful strategy? IE: is focusing on just trading one type of resource viable? Can you even exchange resources? Can you play through the majority of the game trading resources for technology and stuff? How does choosing the race elements affect this?

And most importantly, seriously, how does the AI function. I know its a preview but most of us will be playing MoO3 single player, so its critical that the AI be challenging (although a big disclamer should be noted that of course it is still in development and is liable to change). Does the AI act intelligently in warfare on the tactial level, the strategic level, and the diplomatic level? Is it aggressive, is it passive, does it play each race differently depending on traits or maybe based on the traits of a given race and its natural relationship with other races (same ideals, etc)?

We need insight, not just reporting.

[Jack Frost]

ps: you being somewhat critical of the game not only gives us an idea of what the game really offers, but it might also give the Developers some early feedback on play balance, etc. But I don't know what kind of agreements are required (or unwritten and just understood) in recieving a preview copy for review.

[billybaruch1]

DanQ's rebuttal is weak.

I'll ask it plainly: did you play the game, or not? What was it like? Did you win?

I think it was the lack of material covered instead of the volume. "Future installments on a piecemeal basis..." Huh?

"Penis in a porno": that's a good one!