In-House Preview Online: Part 1

[ashbery]

Whens the next part.

[Sultanofsham]

Release your hold upon the the next installment

[auriga_m38]

Yeah, I really would like to see a breakdown of how they did the customize feature myself. Not necessarily what all the details or options that are available, but whether this feature has been properly play-balanced.

The Custom Race feature on MOO2 was great but it was horribly unbalanced. You could create a custom race which ignored planet type/atmosphere in addition to not needing to eat food and you could basically use it to romp all over any of the other pre-defined races - even at the higher difficulty levels (Reminds me of the pirates faction in the Alpha Centauri expansion, Alien Crossfire), and this was true even after the final patch which modified some of the point costs.

So I'm not sure how much play balancing has been done on custom races vs. predefined races - I have a feeling that the latter group will come out the superior choice.

Terence

[Alexfrog]

Customizing in MOO3 is different than race customizing on MOO2. yes MOO2 was unbalanced, but it was fun

MOO3 should be a bit more balanced and still fun

In MOO3, you choose a basic rate as a template, then you give them modifications to various racial stats. But for each race, they have some limitations on what stats you can give them.

Also, many special abilities, such as things that are like what subterranean, aquatic, tolerant, etc were in MOO2, i.e. the more specific special abilities, are built in to certain races or groups of races. Example: Klackons and Tachidi have subterranean, Nommo and Tirlarians have Aquatic, Silicoids have Tolerant, Eloidi and Ismaesis have Flying (or something like that), and so on. These abilities CANNOT be chosen by other races!!!!!! Some races also get some abilities cheaper or more expensive. For example, one race might get bonuses to production and research at cheaper cost, or something like that...while something else was more expensive.

Also, each races has set diplomatic relations to start with with each other type of race. In addition to that, each race has a range of habitable planets which is dependant on temperature and gravity. And some races could have a larger habitable zone than others (I know for a fact due to a post by a Beta Tester that the Raas have a larger terraforming/habitable range than most others).

So picking your race is pickingwhat your unique special abilities are, what your terraforming/habitation zone is, which races are friendly/unfriendly to you, and your starting template for abilities, such as mining ability, bioharvest ability and so on. Then, some of this stuff is customizable. So you could take Raas, lower their diplomacy and combat stats, and increase their production and research stats, for example. My impression is that it IS fairly customizable, but not TOTALLY like in MOO2

[auriga_m38]

Wow, thanks for that detailed response.

Well it sounds like things should be more balanced this time around, as there seems to be more limitations placed on what you can and can't do.

MOO2 was just a giant list and you just gleefully ticked off whatever you like - but I agree, it was pretty fun.

Terence

[Zapaan]

Good article so far, but I have to say, the references to Star Trek and other pop media struck me as being VERY distracting and seemed completely out of place.

I kept wondering why in the world you would even mention them. Is there an assumption that because someone is interested in MoO3 they must watch Star Trek? I mean, with the descriptions of each race being given and part of their history being told do I really need to be given a frame of reference? And a Star Trek reference at that? If a reference needs to be made, why not use something a little more universal?

It was akin to reading a review on the latest Civic with comparisons of it's braking power to how hard Darius Kaspiritis (sp?) can stop a forward with his head down. To those who don't watch hockey, this comparison means absolutely nothing, and is completely out of place and makes the writer seem just a little too obsessed with a partcular interest.

Just a critique, but leave out the niche references.

Or maybe it's just me

- Z

[kalbear]

Well, let's see.

Tolerant no longer affects population size, it only affects pollution levels.

Silicoids still need to eat something. They can't just mine and be done with it. Bioharvesting will be important not just because of food, but because of rare bios and manufacturing.

There are a LOT more picks, overall. Racial tendencies are there but are not nearly as awe-inspiring in terms of abilities given out. In this way, it's much more like Moo than Moo2.

Government types are not as critical overall, and can be changed. Unification, while still being the best government type, is not so ridiculous compared to dictatorship. Goverment types, by that reasoning, are cheaper to choose.

Creative is not a pick. Nothing like creative is in the game. Science is much more like Moo, and as a result you simply get bonuses to research with the occasional windfall. There is no such thing as 'research this category and get one item from it' any more.

Terraforming is another racial trait, and has to do with pollution qualities and how fast you make planets work for you.

There are a lot less 'special' characteristics, like Moo2 had. Most of the things that are modifiable are similar to the food/prod/res/money/spy/ship/ deal. There's 16 different categories now, dealing with all that. And while these definitely make a difference, they are not as game-defining as lithovore, telepathy, creative, aquatic...that sort of deal. So it's basically impossible to get a 'bargain' deal - it's very mathematically set in stone.

Finally, the game is balanced in other ways. Harvesters are hated by everyone at the beginning of the game, no matter what you are. That's how the diplomacy system works -races tend to like or hate any species from a race. So while harvesters get the antaran background and tolerant special abilities, they're hated by people and can't do much in the way of the diplomacy.

It looks pretty decent - the 'specials' aren't there and none of the bonuses for races looked hideous.

[Alexfrog]

whoa, Antarans are Tolerant too!!

I wonder if this will be: "deleted by Rantz"

thanks for the info


Also Kalbear, do you have more info?? could you give a list of the special abilities, and who has each one? and any info on what they do specifically? thx for anything youve got

[Alexfrog]

Originally posted by auriga_m38
Wow, thanks for that detailed response.

Well it sounds like things should be more balanced this time around, as there seems to be more limitations placed on what you can and can't do.

MOO2 was just a giant list and you just gleefully ticked off whatever you like - but I agree, it was pretty fun.

Terence

your welcome.

yeah it should be more balanced.

yeah, MOO2 was a giant list of stuff and you ticked off what you wanted. Only it only let you take 10 minus picks dangit! I wanted to take like 20, and make an even more broken race

[kalbear]

All of this is taken from the strategy guide. Any mistakes in the product vs. this I figure came from balancing issues or my poor retyping.

There are 14 different basic traits for each race. Each trait has 4 levels: poor, average, good, superior. These go very similar to the +2/+1/0/-1 scale that Moo2 had. I don't want to copy the guidebook verbatim, so I'll sum up what they do a bit.
Those are:

Bioharvesting: farming efficiency/rare materials
Mining: mining efficiency/rare minerals
Manufacturing: capacity/industry value per pop/craftsman materials
Research: efficiency/test tubes per pop
Trade: space port efficiency/trade agreement bonus/ease to obtain
Environmental: pollution penalty waived/terraforming cost
Economics:interest earned/debt earned/heavy foot of govt reduction
Accuracy: Ground combat
Reflexes: Ground combat
Toughness: Ground combat (I realize that this appears they all do the same thing. As far as I can tell, that is because they _DO_ do all the same thing.
Diplomacy: modify initial reaction to race
Citizenship: unrest total
Cunning: boosts spy cloak,dagger,luck and loyalty skills
Creativity: less tech overruns/more beneficial overruns

You also have starting member of orion senate (yes/random/no), government type(collectivist/representative/absolutist.

Then there's the 'other' characteristics for a race to start with. There's richness of the planet, biodiversity of the planet (I'm guessing this means a similar thing to rich/ultra rich/poor except for farming types).

Finally, there's the special abilities that are listed.
Fantastic Traders: increase trade agreements 15%
Natural Engineers: +.5 manufacturing capacity
Tolerant: reduce negative pollution 50%
Empathic: improve all areas of diplomacy
Antaran Background: increase of getting Antaran X research by 20%.

And that is it that's listed. I don't know what all of these do, but I've got a pretty fair idea of most everything. As you can see, the special abilities have been greatly reduced, and those abilities are basically, for the most part, subsets of the primary racial abilities.

Note that I can find nothing about combat abilities improving space combat. Nothing at all.

Each race type (humanoid/harvester/insecta) has base attributes as well that are unchangeable. Each race gets along with other races the same basic way; for instance, humanoids and cybernetiks hate each other. Humanoids and ichtysosians are quite charmed with each other. Very similar to the race chart in Moo.

Each race has specific ground combat bonuses: initiative, attacks, hits, evade, accuracy...there's a bunch of 'em, and no two races are the same. Again, this is unmodifiable.

And that's it. There's hints of other things - like 'flight' bonuses - but they're not listed in the guide. Overall, it feels like most races start at much more of an even keel than they did in Moo and Moo2, which might make it a bit more bland but at the same time make it a lot more balanced.

[Zed-F]

Some/all of those abilities that you have listed as affecting ground combat also affect space combat, IIRC. I believe accuracy has a space combat offensive bonus and reflexes a space combat defensive bonus. Toughness may also have a pace combat hit point bonus (reflecting design philosophy more than gunner/pilot abilities I guess.)

[Epistax]

There are 14 different basic traits for each race. Each trait has 4 levels: poor, average, good, superior. These go very similar to the +2/+1/0/-1 scale that Moo2 had.

I'd like to point out that for some traits, some races seem to havev an even better rating.

For example for science, the psilons have a rating of "Original", wheras everyone else has poor, average, good, or superior.

I noticed these for a few other traits.

[kalbear]

Zed-F: as I said, that is all info from the strat guide, which appears to be somewhat flawed in it's information. As an example, the strat guide ranks Klackons as the lowest race, and doesn't take into consideration the insecta bonus for subterranean, pop growth and collectivist govt type. All of which make them quite good.

Epistax: Your point is incorrect. Some of the traits have different names for the four types, but there are still only 4 types, and those behave in the same fashion.

Economics: Investor/Monetarist/Specie/Barter
Citizenship:Loyalty/Duty/Association/liberty
Cunning: Dangerous/Quick/Sharp/Slow
Creativity: Original/Adaptive/Normal/Imitative. (ETA: oops, sorry about that)

Again, these all have the same deal - a superior rating is twice as good as a good rating. A poor rating is generally the negative version of a good rating.

Finally, Epistax is flat-out wrong in one respect - creativity has absolutely no 'poor/average/good' type rating in name. There's the 4 traits, as named above.

In other news, there's more 'basic' racial traits that I've found on other boards. Things like comfort levels on planets - what you consider to be sweet spots - aren't customizable. Ethereans like gas giant worlds, for instance. Saurians have a much bigger habitable ring for planets than most other races. Pop growth is another - again, saurians and insecta grow faster than other races, silicoids grow more slowly. Harvesters 'eat' other non-harvester population points to gain bioharvesting.

That sort of thing. More info as I find it.

[RolandtheMad]

When will we be seeing part 2?

[DanQ]

Originally posted by Zapaan
Good article so far, but I have to say, the references to Star Trek and other pop media struck me as being VERY distracting and seemed completely out of place.

I kept wondering why in the world you would even mention them. Is there an assumption that because someone is interested in MoO3 they must watch Star Trek? I mean, with the descriptions of each race being given and part of their history being told do I really need to be given a frame of reference? And a Star Trek reference at that? If a reference needs to be made, why not use something a little more universal?

It was akin to reading a review on the latest Civic with comparisons of it's braking power to how hard Darius Kaspiritis (sp?) can stop a forward with his head down. To those who don't watch hockey, this comparison means absolutely nothing, and is completely out of place and makes the writer seem just a little too obsessed with a partcular interest.

Just a critique, but leave out the niche references.

Or maybe it's just me

- Z

Hi Zapaan. First, thank you for the kind words. Now, in regards to the Star Trek and Stargate references...

I explained their relevance on the first page of this installment. That said, they were only an aside -- an introductory mechanism -- and not meant to be anything 'deeper' than that.

As I stated in my explanation referenced above, I felt that they may further the understanding of Moo3's background for those who are interested in the aforesaid series and game. I am not presuming that everyone who is interested in MoO3 is interested in these sci-fi series or sci-fi series period, as outlined in my introductory comments in the article. The vice-verse applies too.

The comparisons in question are not something that are going to be a common appearance in future instalments. In fact, I am not planning any inclusions of reference to these shows/movies in the coming editions of the feature.

-----------
Dan; Apolyton CS