Displacement devices suck

[Whoha]

I almost never get that tech, I'll have to try that out with an EC.

[vmxa1]

Only creatives will have rangemaster, but even then the size IIRC is 200 before any reducers.

That is a lot of guns for so little return. It only reduces the range penalty partially.

At this stage of the game you will get in one round at distance and then ships can close on you, so what is its real value?

To me I do no see any need to use all of those fancy specials that just eat up space. I guess because I played for so long with no creative races, you find you just don't need them.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Dunnagan I don't mean to seem like I am giving you a hard time. That is not what I am about. I am happy to have you aboard.

Seemed more like constructive criticism, which I appreciate; rather than a hard time, but I appreciate the welcome. glad to be here, I was beginning to think nobody liked moo2.

[SIZE=1] What I like to do is to ensure that players that come after do not think they need creative to win or that titans and doomstars are required.

up until a week or so ago I used to only play creative. now I'm experimenting with all the other stuff. alot of the stuff I do is still novice, I save the game before I rush if not trans-dimensional, etc. but I'm starting to do different things, I won a small map earlier yesterday silicoid-style with a Lith-+2Research combo without creative, that seemed to work really well.

Also what's cool about not playing creative is the feeling you get when a spy gives you a good tech. I did well with Lith/+2 research +2 production and diplo gov,I would have gotten uni, but Lith/uni seems like a waste (the food production part of uni is useless with lith) Definately more 'fun' to play non creative. (however if I was playing a multiplayer game I'd probably pick creative/artifacts/+1 research)

[SIZE=1] If player want to play creative for fun, great. I do as well from time to time. If player want to make monster DS, great. I just want to be sure that new comers understand that is not needed.

I'm slow with all the abbreviations, what's DS?

[Whoha]

Doom stars.

[vmxa1]

Sorry DS is DoomStar. A lith is great on a small map and dropping uni for +P's should be fine.

I agree it is some what rewarding to get a tech from spies as a non creative. Especially if it somethig like missile bases or a computer.

The one thing about dropping the Uni that may make it a bit harder is that you now need those morale boosters. You cannot sell of that barracks.

This is fine on a larger maps, but the small map does not allow the time to research and build those boosters and you won't have many as a non creative anyway.

So I have not tried it out to see, but I suspect it may be a bit of a hinder. It is really all about that first race near you.

As long as you can whack them, the rest of it will fall into place. If it takes too long to get on top of them, you will have problems.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
As long as you can whack them, the rest of it will fall into place. If it takes too long to get on top of them, you will have problems.

especially if you are repulsive (who isnt) and have psilon neighbors.

by far, on impossible with the prod+research bonus, psilons are the hardest race. especially when they upgrade to battlestations /c3 shields and I'm running around with mirv nuke cruisers lol. I felt like an army of primitive hunter-gatherer spearmen going up against a guerilla soldiers armed with submachine guns. yeah, it was bad. this happened the first few games I saw the psilons in when I didn't pick creative. really mandatory to take those guys out as soon as you locate them..AI plays them well. then again, ai plays almost every race well, even if methodic, as I've even seen the lowly gnolams rise to the top.

[M Bison]

I personally think Phasors are the best bang for buck/space weapon in the game. They do good damage and you can get them down to a space rating of 5 with Shield penetration very early in the game. Add that with the Structural Analyzer and Achilles Targeting Unit and you have a rediculous ship for cheap.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by M Bison
I personally think Phasors are the best bang for buck/space weapon in the game. They do good damage and you can get them down to a space rating of 5 with Shield penetration very early in the game. Add that with the Structural Analyzer and Achilles Targeting Unit and you have a rediculous ship for cheap.

but a fighter garrison will work a phasor ship over, it's nice to have some disrupters at that stage in the game, 1 or 2 on every ship is a good idea. this way if they have a fighter garrison you can just take it out first, let all your ships get a shot in, and then close in on the fleet with phasors

[M Bison]

Fighter Garrisons are worthless against Phasors. I was just playing yesteray and my Phasor ships had no problems dispatching fighter garrisons.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by M Bison
Fighter Garrisons are worthless against Phasors. I was just playing yesteray and my Phasor ships had no problems dispatching fighter garrisons.

if the planet has a barrier shield, phasors will not do one point of damage

[M Bison]

If I recall correctly, Shield Piercing Phasors will penetrate planetary shields as well.

[vmxa1]

I don't think so. I can't swear to it, but I do not recall any ship I ever had with phasors only doing any damaged to a planet with barrier shields.

The point is that you are correct, phasors are great bang for the buck, up to a point. The problem is in the latter part of the game, the defenses are often too strong for this weapon.

You go to disrupters, because they will always work. It is not a fun thing to watch the fleet jerk around and do no damage, with phasors only.

[M Bison]

Are you using Phasors with the Shield Piercing advantage? I am almost 100% certain that they will penetrate planetary shields as well as normal ship shields.

I use Phasors pretty much exclusively til end game on the highest difficulty and have no problems decimating fleets, planets, antarans and everything else thrown at me.

[vmxa1]

First there are three levels of planetary shields.
Rad
Flux
Barrier

Second SP mod is of no value against Anties as they do not have shields. They use the Damper Fields and even though it acts like a shields, the SP mods is not able to treat it that way.

So if you are whacking anties (I do not even bother to send ships to kill them) it has nothing to do with shield piercing.

As to planets, here is what I have seen a ton of times. Phasor only ships will come to some planets and if you hit auto they will just sit there and bounce around, until you retreat.

The point is that once I get disrupters, I will soon upgrade to them and drop the phasors as they are not needed.

It is often the case that no one in the game ever gets anything better than radiated planetary shields and so you are fine.

If they do get barrier shields and maybe even dampers, you may want something else.

In addition I am not all that fond of jamming in all those superfluous specials. I prefer more guns. This is especially true right after I get Hef.

At this point I cannot fit all that many guns in anyway.

Here is how I look at it. Even if Phasors are a better deal, there are cases they are not useful. There are no such cases for disrupters.

It is like the early 80's when some realestate friends told me to buy another house for investments. I told them I felt the market would soon collapse. I was right, but that was not my point.

My point was if I was wrong and they were right, all that happened was I did not make quite as much as they did.

If I was right, they lost their butts and many went broke. They made a foolish gamble.

This is the same thing. If I am wrong, all that happens is you blast their fleets and planets using fewer of your guns. If I am right, then you show up at a planet you cannot defeat.

I just looked at all my saves and none have the AI with barrier shields and that is not a surprise as that is a very late tech and the AI will not get it often.

Maybe I will find a creative game and give the tech to the AI to see if they can get it build and test this out.

[M Bison]

My only point was that with one simple upgrade to Phasors, they make pretty much all but one beam weapon obsolete.

At that point, Phasors take up 5 space points with the Shield Penetration upgrade and disruptors take up 20 or so with no upgrades.

All I was saying. I'd rather save some costs and get my fleet built faster and then maybe later refit some with disruptors.