tolerant discussion

[da_hal]

is it that good? maybe in conjunction with lithovore, but 10 pts for it by itself seems out of whack.

i haven't messed with it much by myself, but it appears that cp's that use it are relatively strong.

[vmxa1]

UniTol +P LHW is about as strong as it gets. If it was cheaper still that would be allowing even additional picks to be used.

[bakalov]

da_hal, tolerant is very strong with production races because of the no-pollution feature. The other good thing is that you are getting large pops on the bad environment planets and can get a ridiculously high PP on those rich and u-rich planets that normally allow only a few pop units.
The race that VMXA mentioned is probably the best in the game.

[da_hal]

really? i've leaned towards DemLith +Res LPS as the strongest because i've done single planet wins in under 170 turns...just keep clicking "t".

i've found pure tech to be faster to win than pure prod, although i don't play much mp.

[vmxa1]

DemoLith is maybe my second strongest. I just hate the stealing aspects the demo brings with it though.

[bakalov]

da_hal, it is faster in real time, but not in game turns - uni tol can do a speed kill in a huge galaxy, max opponents for ~140 turns. Of course, you'll have to manage quite more planets here.

BTW if you are playing a single planet style, then why you do not take artifacts instead of +1 research? This is equal to +2 on this single planet and if you don't want to colonize you may did it a bit faster.

[P-K]

Originally posted by da_hal
really? i've leaned towards DemLith +Res LPS as the strongest because i've done single planet wins in under 170 turns...just keep clicking "t".

i've found pure tech to be faster to win than pure prod, although i don't play much mp.

Most powerfull combo is uni tol prod with NO large HW. Why no large ? Cos u have +20 defence more and +10 troops more, by cost of -10 spy. More defence plus inertial stabilizer gives a huge defence bonus. Ships like that can handle to survive the autofire mass driver with cyber computer for a medium and long distance. Better troops are usefull when boards are important. This has a great aspect. U can go for autolabs early and do not fear a cyber bb so much.
Also a bit smaller hw is a minimal disadvantage a player can easly handle. Sometimes i prefer POOR hw with a LARGE combo. However it only works with unitol prod.

However demolith is far from the best race. It is only the best demo race. I think every uni race can easly outcome poor demo. To bad it is so costly !

Someptin about tol pick :
Tol gives a unique economy bonus. No other race can do this so great. On multiplanetary system u build a 1st colony at max with a cbase at end. Then move ur pop to next colonized planet while the first one do 1 man house. Other strategy is also nice : U have 2 planets in a system which have simmilar large pop. U move all man from one planet to another to build things in 1 or 2 turns. Then pop on the other. When tol finds early rich as 2 nd system, it pops to 3 and buid a colony base in 8T. This is AWESOME. Also med rich can out a cship every 5T using only 10 man.
Summary : tol gives AWESOME capabilities, but only with uni prod.

PK

[vmxa1]

bakalov is correct that if you plan on doing a turtle run, use AHW instead of +R. Plus R or P is best used when you are going to spread out and are in a large or huge map.

[Whoha]

ship defense is free points, early game they won't hit, and late game they will.

tolerant is awesome, and it goes well with most picks.

[Brutalisk]

"Demolith is only the best demo race. "

Despite its obvious advantages, I DO disagree with that. I use some democracy races which I think in my view can compete with that and are far more robust. Demolith would be a good choice though for an uncreative race

[bakalov]

Demo lith has some very interesting properties:
- It can launch an efficient attack at T30 if the opponent is reachable with one outpost (deuterium) and a few turns later with two outposts.
- It can defeat the guardian at T100.

[Brutalisk]

What game settings and how many players Bakalov?

In 1v1s you have lots of space and time and only one opponent to worry about, whereas in games with a lot of players, you soon find yourself faced with a lot of opponents

And usually, the human opponents are a lot smarter than the AI


Brutalisk

[P-K]

Originally posted by Whoha
ship defense is free points, early game they won't hit, and late game they will.

tolerant is awesome, and it goes well with most picks.

I found tol as awesome pick only with uni prod race. Normally it sucks.

Ship defense is NOT free points. Try to hit a -20 defence bb with ion drv by a normal af co laser. And try to hit a 0 defence penalty BB with same stuff. It matters for medium and large maps. It really matters ! AF laser is deadly in early game, so are missles. When u have a 0 defence fleet u eliminate a danger from lasers ( lets say decrease greatly ). So it has a great strategic influence on game.
Later game is important too. If u dont have a cyber comp and atleast a short range to ur enemy, u can only dream to hit 0 defence penalty enemy. So it still MATTERS much !

PK

[Whoha]

I get battlescanners with positronic, works like a charm for hitting everyone. I have not noticed a difference, in early game I just hit and run with missiles so its not an issue.

[Whoha]

and most tol strategies go around production, so try lith/tol and cyber/prod/tol.