tolerant discussion

[Whoha]

In closing, +2 Prod,cyber,tol is fun, but not as good as tol/uni/prod.

[Garth Vader]

I would have thought by this time we'd be trying more fun races rather than always the "best" race.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Whoha


but not also the ship repair, which is very spiffy. Also you don't get the less need for food for colonization.

I don't have much need of either. By the time I start to spread out, food is not an issue and the small aid from cyber for ship repair is not going to make a difference.

How often does the AI bust one of your ships?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Garth Vader
I would have thought by this time we'd be trying more fun races rather than always the "best" race.

We are, I would think. None the less we get off on tangents.

[Croesus]

How often does the AI bust one of your ships?

Often enough. I must not be that good, because when I attack after getting deutrium fuel cells with a few lasers blazing and lots of nukes flying, the AI has nukes and a missile base. Since I always thought that deutrium fuel cells were more important early game than tritanium, it means that I was losing BattleShips with a reinforece hull to normal nukes. With the regeneration a battle ship could take 7 nukes a turn.

+1 prod helps more on abundant to poor worlds. If you play cyb-tol-unif it means that a poor world is a trap. However, for rich worlds you get 10% less. The biggest advantage is in the ability to repair a ship during combat, mostly against planets because the defender can't retreat. Cyber could use the reduced population needed for food on research. All in all, I think that if you play cyber, you should be tolerant, and make your populations on planets even instead of odd.

For some strange reason I fail to see the advantage of a the higher production gained by +1p LHW. Building a Bship in 2 turns is nice (ultrarich huge terran planet), but you saturate your capacity quite quickly, then you tax and stall your new worlds. Part/most/all of your fleet gets destroyed by something, then you rebuild and redeploy. Depending on the size this could take a few turns. Therfore, it might be better in a game to make your ships longer lasting, sort of the quality versus quanitity.

[Garth Vader]

What he said. Also if I am not creative the repair on a SB makes planets a lot easier to defend against antarans.

In early game fights cyber is gold!

[vmxa1]

I never had any trouble with Anties. They seem to go for the AI for the first 4 or 5 times they show up. After that it is too late for them to be effective.

Except for games when I use tele blitz races, I tend to not go after any combat with early ships. I like to get a few and park them over new systems and build up to a star base. Once I get 5 or 6 ships, I take out Orion and never look back.

I may run into a big fight now and then and even lose a ship or two, but by then I don't care. I will be replacing them quickly and the fight will be the end of the line for that race.

What I am saying is the rare case were a plus 10 to my ship will save the battle is pretty rare and is not going to last all that long. So I spend those picks for a vary small window. I mean in the end you can play any number of ways and win.

[Garth Vader]

The AI almost always declares war around the time I can get my first cruiser out. I can't avoid fighting because they always send ships my way and if I don't have MB the battles are tough.

[Whoha]

cyber is extremely useful in small galaxies where you run into alot of those early fights.

[vmxa1]

Yes a small map can get you into more combat. I sometimes run into situations where I cannot defeat their ships very early. I simply do not fight them and they either blockade until I can defeat them or they foolishly attack me at the HW with its starbase and die. I won't have MB unless I am playing a creative race.

All I am saying Whoha is I have played 100's of games and never needed Cyber. I played with it a bit a long time back and like many traits you can use it, but so what? There is a reason why it is not among the list of top races played, it is inferior. That you can win with is true, but only in SP games.

[P-K]

vmxa1:
"There is a reason why it is not among the list of top races played, it is inferior. That you can win with is true, but only in SP games."

True !

PK

[Croesus]

There is a reason why it is not among the list of top races played, it is inferior. That you can win with is true, but only in SP games.

Just because something is unpopular, doesn't mean it isn't good in the right hands. Is the strategy in MoO2 not diverse enough for cyber to be effective by certain players in certain conditions?

I haven't played Multiplayer. I would assume the best place is Kali. How long does a game take? When I played it on a LAN without a patch, the between time in turns was long. It seemed strange that it would need so much time on a closed LAN (only 4 computers hooked to it, no internet or other connections), and only 2 computers were being on. The router was also a switching router, meaning if two computers were communicating exclusively, it would optimize their connection. MoO2 was slow. Was this fixed in subsequent patches?

vmxa1, congratulations on your 10,000th post a while ago.

[Garth Vader]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Yes a small map can get you into more combat. I sometimes run into situations where I cannot defeat their ships very early. I simply do not fight them and they either blockade until I can defeat them or they foolishly attack me at the HW with its starbase and die. I won't have MB unless I am playing a creative race.

But then you will lose colonies because the AI always has transports.

Most of the time I am able to trade for MB before it gets to be too much of a problem, but you are usually repulsive.

[Garth Vader]

Originally posted by Croesus

I haven't played Multiplayer. I would assume the best place is Kali. How long does a game take? When I played it on a LAN without a patch, the between time in turns was long. It seemed strange that it would need so much time on a closed LAN (only 4 computers hooked to it, no internet or other connections), and only 2 computers were being on. The router was also a switching router, meaning if two computers were communicating exclusively, it would optimize their connection. MoO2 was slow. Was this fixed in subsequent patches?

I doubt it, my experience is also from a LAN and it was incredibly slow. One game there was 3 of us and we played for like 6 hours, finally got to the good part and then it would crash if combat took more than 1 round so the whole day was toast. I never wanted to try MP again after that!

[P-K]

Originally posted by Croesus

Just because something is unpopular, doesn't mean it isn't good in the right hands. Is the strategy in MoO2 not diverse enough for cyber to be effective by certain players in certain conditions?

I haven't played Multiplayer. I would assume the best place is Kali. How long does a game take? When I played it on a LAN without a patch, the between time in turns was long. It seemed strange that it would need so much time on a closed LAN (only 4 computers hooked to it, no internet or other connections), and only 2 computers were being on. The router was also a switching router, meaning if two computers were communicating exclusively, it would optimize their connection. MoO2 was slow. Was this fixed in subsequent patches?

Finally right questions ! Kali is having alot of moo newbies lately ! Mostly GERMAN players. Here my answers :

1. Cyber is really not effective in mp games on kali. It is a rare pick to find in player`s races. I repeat once again : cyber takes around -1 prod and another 1 prod from 4 picks. So it is -2 prod to tol prod. It is a deadly distance. Hard to overcome.

2. Games on kali takes from 2 hours to 16 h. Most games are ended in 4-6 h. Large map 1v1 is most popular here.

3. Moo is slow ? Ofcourse it is ! U play windows version. Dos is several times faster ! Our new xp patch ables to play dos moo under windows xp at kali.

PK