MOO3 vs. BotF

[Orion_Prime]

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[Orion_Prime] I agree that games which include territory are interesting, but you pretty much have to decide between either having hyperspace lanes, which allow for strategic pinch points, or for open space travel allowing empty space to become strategically important, not just systems. Personally I like the starlane system because it allows you to build distinct border defence systems, interior research systems etc. It also helps focus the AI on achievable goals instead of seeing a fleet head off for a multi turn journey because some world at the back end of nowhere is temporarily vulnerable.

Only problem is that star lanes offer a fairly limited exploration experience, at least at the beginning of the game.

One nice thing about MOO3 is that you aren't forced to use the starlanes (if you can wait a while). One thing I don't understand though: Why does the "travel through nebula" modifier decrease the speed through a starlane, but increase the speed through open space?

[Grumbold]

I never even noticed that it did affect travel speed

Starlanes do allow more reliable start potential than free travel if you look at the Moo2 model. There an unlucky start could see a race with no planets at 3 or 4 au distance so it has to get the second fuel upgrade before it can go anywhere. I mainly think it helps the AI a bit and is a positive development for that reason alone.

[Orion_Prime]

As an amusing anecdote, i was playing MOO2 with a friend of mine (back in the days of dial-up direct connect, ugh) was stuck at a star with three black holes blocking him in. The only star he was allowed to travel to would have taken two fuel upgrades to get to.

Needless to say, we restarted, but it was an AWESOME defensive position...

[CharlesBHoff]

Also in BOTF than system with than population of 100 can only built 10 DEA. In one game I was playing the Cardassian than I have the Bajoran join my empire just by buying then over a period of time. Now Major Kia I want you in my bed so I can have fun with you.

[Grumbold]

in BotF you can build as many buildings as you like but you can only use a certain number based on pop limit. I always had spares to counter those bad randome events and to allow me to switch on more energy to power up system defences when threatened etc. The minor races always had stupid amounts of each type when captured or converted.

[Orion_Prime]

I never minded the Minor Races' habbit of building strange numbers of Farming buildings because they were so good it didn't matter.

The cool thing about the minor races was, if you could affiliate with them, then wait several tens of turns, and then offer membership, their buildings would be so unbelievably high-tech that they would be the jewel of your empire.

Because of this, I always felt that the Federation had an unfair edge over the other empires...

[Hydro]

The Feds were only real good at Advanced start and below. After that the minors were technologically inferior and would take forever to catch up (and generally weren't worth the investment to do it - you got them for their Specials, and maybe intel stations). Also, cloak was massively over powered, especially on Kvork class Klingon cruisers. Nothing can stand against them.

Another major bug was scrapping ships. You got full value for scrapping, and didn't pay any surcharge for rush build. This renders diplomacy for minor races irrelevant since all you have to do is build a few transports, scrap them for full price in cash, then load up the minor with a big, huge bribe. Even the most repulsive race (like Klingons, who negotiate with disruptors) can beat the nice-guy AI Fed cold. This also makes infrastructure irrelevant since you can 1) build a ship at a developed planet in the heart of your empire, 2) scrap the ship for no penalty, 3) build a shipyard in a puny new colony and 4) rush build the same ship at no penalty at that new colony. Instant fleets!

A major loophole is the ship upgrades. I build a puny destroyer or class 1 transport, wait for a key tech advance, get a free auto upgrade that triples the value of the ship (and its combat value) and then I can crush everyone in the galaxy with my instant mega fleet. Or I can scrap the transports or ships and have more cash than I know what do to with. You get the point.

That said I still like the game since it has a good “flavor”, and exploration if fun. I just don’t use the obvious holes the developers left in the game.

Hydro