stardock future update plans: good or evil?

[MarkG]

If it is not unfinished, why is there a years worth of patches planned

does geting a college degree mean that you're done with learning anything else in this life?
it's the same thing

I want a game that doesn't have the first patches scheduled before it even hits the shelves.

due to the time difference between going gold and release day, ALL games these days have at least 1 patch planned early after the release
at least games done by serious developers

Are there any modding capabilities in Galciv and if so, are they compatible with the patches?

yes and probably(as the patches dont just fix bugs, but mainly also tweak some rules for better balance...

Just think about a person who buys this game a year from now... they're going to have hundreds of patches to download

eeer hmmm.... just one patch.....

By the way, Maxis promised continuing support for The Sims when it was released, and it only lasted a few weeks before they releaized they could be making expansion packs and geting people to pay for it all instead.

guess what, stardock is releasing a **FREE** expansion pack....

[Nirvana_CN]

Dont forget that the year of updates contains a *FREE* Expansion pack!

why not go play Moo3, not *thats* a game thats unplayable out of the box :P

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Lemmy
* Lemmy reads Oswelds post again..
Bah you're confusing

You call it an unfinished and incomplete game. But it isn't unplayable...mk, i can live with that, though a bit odd.

It is unfinished because the developer has said that there would be a years worth of patches. They are stringing people along. You said that they've told us what will be in the game at release - well, they've also told us that there's still a lot not there.

It is almost* as bad as having expansion packs planned before release.

*A big almost

But then, you don't like the fact that there are patches (and updates/new features!) scheduled, and that you don't want patches to be planned before release....yet you find it normal that good developers have after-release support ("not something that should need promising"). So the "good developers" obviously expect it, and most likely also plan for it.

Good developers will plan on supprting the game, but they won't have a dozen patches lined up before the game is released, and they do not release a patch every couple of days. After-release support should be bug fixes and improvements - not a million little updates of new pirate protection.

Then why condemn Stardock for being open about it and offering a lot better support then most developers?

Quantity does not equal quality.

Anyways, I'm condemning them for the way they are supprting the game - not for supporting it.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Nirvana_CN
Dont forget that the year of updates contains a *FREE* Expansion pack!

I guess I spoke too soon about planing expansion packs before release.

Atleast they have the decency not to charge for it, but that is still content that should be in the original game. Why have they got to release the game in bits and pieces over an entire year (or more)?

And what about someone who doesn't have an internet connection? (But I guess they've probably all stoped playing computer games out of sheer frustration and disgust by now. )

[Nirvana_CN]

Osweld

Most of these "Patches" are actually updates to the game.

We suggest Ideas, they add them into the game. Now im sure you can twist that into saying that those ideas should have been in the game anyway.

Dont worry, your one in a million, there is always one person who will find things to complain about.

Your inherant anger should be directed at Moo3 in reality, as thats a game where there are many people with your views and you might make a difference there!

How many games do you see whose fans suggest features, new units, new events, UI ideas, and 2 days later they appear in the lastest update?

[MarkG]

that is still content that should be in the original game.

would you wait 6 months for it? and who determines what "should" be in a game? just because it possible to be coded, the developer has to add it no matter what resources you have?!?

i think you just want to argue....

[Lemmy]

they've also told us that there's still a lot not there.

That's just being honest.

Quantity does not equal quality.

But they do offer quality.
They don't just fix bugs like all the other developers do. They also add suggestions made by players...

i think you just want to argue....

/me agrees

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Nirvana_CN
Osweld

Most of these "Patches" are actually updates to the game.

We suggest Ideas, they add them into the game. Now im sure you can twist that into saying that those ideas should have been in the game anyway.

If that's what they wanted, they could have held a (semi)open beta test and gotten feedback before releasing the game. But that isn't my beef here, it's the "patch to annoy the pirates" strategy that bothers me.

How many games do you see whose fans suggest features, new units, new events, UI ideas, and 2 days later they appear in the lastest update?

I can think of a few - not neccisarily two days, but still the same. I can think of a lot more where the fans can do all that themselves.

would you wait 6 months for it? and who determines what "should" be in a game? just because it possible to be coded, the developer has to add it no matter what resources you have?!?

Actually, Galciv doesn't interest me at all so it wouldn't matter to me one way or the other. But yes, I would wait for it - I don't mind waiting for games. As they say, good things come to those who wait.

The developers determine what should be in a game, and they obviously think this should be in it, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

i think you just want to argue....

What's wrong with that?

[Fried-Psitalon]

Originally posted by Osweld
Actually, Galciv doesn't interest me at all so it wouldn't matter to me one way or the other. But yes, I would wait for it - I don't mind waiting for games. As they say, good things come to those who wait.

It doesn't interest you at all? Good. THEN GO AWAY. Trolls we can do without.

The developers determine what should be in a game, and they obviously think this should be in it, otherwise they wouldn't be doing it.

Boy am I glad you don't design games, if you think developers are the sole determining factor of game content. A game designed that way would stink.

What's wrong with that?

About a million things, but I wouldn't want to further waste the time of these boards and its readers (like you have) by continuing a pointless argument with you. Constructive discourse is one of the highest forms of communication , and deliberate, obnoxious argument starting one of the lowest forms, aside from possibly a Britney Spears song.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Fried-Psitalon


It doesn't interest you at all? Good. THEN GO AWAY. Trolls we can do without.

The game doesn't interest me, but this subject does.

Boy am I glad you don't design games, if you think developers are the sole determining factor of game content. A game designed that way would stink.

I'm sorry, but that's generally how it works. That is why they are called developers - they develope the game. Of course, sometimes the publishers will have certain "demands".

About a million things, but I wouldn't want to further waste the time of these boards and its readers (like you have) by continuing a pointless argument with you. Constructive discourse is one of the highest forms of communication , and deliberate, obnoxious argument starting one of the lowest forms, aside from possibly a Britney Spears song.

That's good, when you want to join in the debate instead of trolling you can come back.

the thing is that it's good as it is now. in which case there are two options
a) spend money for six months on improving it according to what the dev.team thinks is good and then release it
b) release it and spend money for six months on improving it according to what THE PEOPLE (who are already enjoying a good game) and the dev.team thinks is good and then give the updates for free, extending players' value for their money

i like option b much much better

Well, as I said, a beta test is a much better way of geting feedback. But this is geting side tracked from what I was talking about, I don't mind that they are supporting the game - that is good. I just don't like the way they are doing it. My original point was that releasing multitudes of patches is not going to have any signifigant effect on piracy, and inconveniances pirates and customers alike.

[MarkG]

My original point was that releasing multitudes of patches is not going to have any signifigant effect on piracy, and inconveniances pirates and customers alike.

as customers can choose how often they want to update, it's not an inconveniance. and if you argue that if the update is out there, the customer will be "forced" to update, then i'm sorry but stardock is just a company making a game, it's not out there to put some willpower into people

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by Lemmy
There aren't any features mentioned on the box that you don't get. *cough*civ3 multiplayer*cough*

Looking at my Civ3 box, I don't see the work multiplayer anywhere.

[Harry Seldon]

GalCiv sucks my willpower to participate in everyday life every time I play. I go to work and see Drengins at the manager cubes, Yors in my server room. All I can think of is timing my terror star tech with enough constructors to build it so I can take out the department that's delaying my deployment and keeping me from playing GalCiv.

Where am I? Why am I still at work? Damn it, I gotta wrap this up so I can get outta here...

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by MarkG

My original point was that releasing multitudes of patches is not going to have any signifigant effect on piracy, and inconveniances pirates and customers alike.

as customers can choose how often they want to update, it's not an inconveniance. and if you argue that if the update is out there, the customer will be "forced" to update, then i'm sorry but stardock is just a company making a game, it's not out there to put some willpower into people

Well, so can pirates. It is an inconveniance to some people, others may not mind - that's not really the point, the point is that it affects customers as much as it does pirates.


Oh, and you just had to create a new topic just as I was trying to steer it back to piracy, didn't you? Now I'm going to end up threadjacking another thread.

[Draginol]

Originally posted by Osweld


Exactly my point, they released it unfinished - a whole year before it's finsihed, apparently - and plan completing it through a slew of patches. Actually, I don't know what these updates are, but I doubt they're much - probably not a year's worth of work.


Any developer that has patches planned before the game is even released gets a big thumbs-down from me.

That's pretty absurd.

Have you even played the game? The game, out of the box, is very complete. It's stable, feature rich, and plays pretty well. The reviews of the game have been based on what's in the box and it's averaging over 4 stars.

By updating the game for a year after release, we can add NEW features based on player feedback. Features that might have been suggested yesterday or suggested during the late beta that couldn't possibly be put in.

But in both cases, we are adding features to the game based on customer requests. Not pre-ordained features.

I think you should seriously look around at other games. Are they more "complete" than GalCiv? Certainly not. But they aren't being updated after release.

It's a bit ironic that someone would actually consider free updates after release to somehow be a bad thing. If more people had your attitude, you'd see fewer updates after release.