Paradox forum and their banning of customers

[HisMajestyBOB]

Ah I get it! Paradox's sole purpose is to destroy your life! Its all clearer now!

[Ming]

While I do hear you... I will again state that they can pretty much do whatever they want. It isn't a Democracy, and there is no such thing as free speech. They can make the rules, and change them on a whim... It's THEIR site. It doesn't have to be fair.
It's really that simple.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ming
While I do hear you... I will again state that they can pretty much do whatever they want. It isn't a Democracy, and there is no such thing as free speech. They can make the rules, and change them on a whim... It's THEIR site. It doesn't have to be fair.
It's really that simple.

Okay.

[uglyduck]

.... my last and only words on the subject:-

He wasnt just banned outright but warned. He persisted and was banned.
Also *I* didnt ban him (I was only a member at the time) but he was banned by a very Senior Member of Paradox. They had no choice as the stuff he was posting was against Swedish Law and they could have got their site taken down and a hefty penalty imposed.
Basically it was either him or the Company!

On another point raised - Only 9 people have been banned since the inception of the board. 3 by me.
I would hardly call that excessive.
Oh yes - I have just put someone on a 24 hour ban just to wake him up

I will not comment further - my actions were all investigated by Paradox and approved.

Now you can both(Hermans and Robroy) take this post apart all you like - it will not change anything and will not stop me posting here for people that dont want to use the Official EU Forums.

Last words have been said

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Ming
...They can make the rules, and change them on a whim... It's THEIR site. It doesn't have to be fair.
It's really that simple.

Sure they can. Clearly they do. But whether they SHOULD or not is really the issue.

Most people try to live their lives according to reasonable standards of fairness. Most organizations, even most message forums, also adhere to reasonable standards of fairness. So expectations for appropriate behavior are fairly high. But somehow most people and organizations manage to meet them. Arbitrary behavior is fraught with negative consequences and is usually a bad idea. Perhaps some people will never believe that, perhaps they will eventually learn...

Originally posted by uglyduck
Now you can both(Hermans and Robroy) take this post apart all you like - it will not change anything and will not stop me posting here for people that dont want to use the Official EU Forums.

Well I'd be happy to take the post apart if you'd actually responded, but since you didn't...

LOL, that's pretty clever, though, implying that someone was trying to stop YOU from posting! If your tongue was firmly in cheek, I'd say you were quite amusing, but I suspect you're completely oblivious to the irony there.

[WFHermans]

Yes ,we're not bigots like you mr Duck. Post anything you like, even stuff that the Swedish laws don't condone.

And Ming is correct in saying that boards can ban whoever they like, giving no reason at all, as they did with me. (Although commercially it's a BAD idea because people will distrust you and stop buying whatever it is you sell,) An exception would be if I would pay $50 to Ming for a year of fulltime reading the forum (because I want to write a thesis about it) and he kicks me out then, although we had an agreement.

I wouldn't sue for the lousy 50 bucks, but I would warn others not to trust mr Ming.

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by WFHermans
And this is what happened, Paradox said revisionism is illegal in Sweden, so it is illegal on the forum, with a life ban for everyone without warning. What I did was saying that such laws are silly and I posted some links to revisionist sites. Booom, kicked out.

/rant on

Perhaps you'd like to highlight the injustice of the death penalty in many Arabic States by jetting out there with a joint in your hand luggage?

If there's anything sillier than daring the mods to ban you by doing precisely what they've just told you not to do, its trying to carry on the arguement in a completely different venue. EU2 is a very good game and the Paradox staff are considerably more approachable and informative there than Firaxis or the CtP team ever have been here. Airing your personal grievances with them on this site won't change it or players opinions.

/rant off

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Grumbold
...the Paradox staff are considerably more approachable and informative there than Firaxis or the CtP team ever have been here. Airing your personal grievances with them on this site won't change it or players opinions....

Actually the Paradox staff aren't as approachable as you suggest, especially if you dare to criticize a (non-staff) forum moderator (regardless of how inappropriate the moderator's behavior may have been).

Not sure what you're getting at regarding airing of grievances, though. Are you trying to discourage people from doing so? Or pointing to the lack of efficacy? Or just impugning the quality of other people's grievances?

"Daring the mods...". I wonder if that would be his interpretation of his actions? Seems to me I've seen people trying to tar other posters with that accusation in other situations. But if you think it's silly to carry on an argument in an different venue, why are you doing so?

[Mordoch]

Originally posted by RobRoy


Actually the Paradox staff aren't as approachable as you suggest, especially if you dare to criticize a (non-staff) forum moderator (regardless of how inappropriate the moderator's behavior may have been).

Not sure what you're getting at regarding airing of grievances, though. Are you trying to discourage people from doing so? Or pointing to the lack of efficacy? Or just impugning the quality of other people's grievances?

"Daring the mods...". I wonder if that would be his interpretation of his actions? Seems to me I've seen people trying to tar other posters with that accusation in other situations. But if you think it's silly to carry on an argument in an different venue, why are you doing so?

Because YOU insist on doing so! Basicly what bugs everyone who is comming from the Paradox board is that you continue to badmouth the people at Paradox every chance you get, and this could mislead people deciding if they should get EU2. The fact of the matter is that the game programers routinely respond to questions asked about EU2, and even listen to people's requests when determining what features will be offered in future games. I.E. Crusader Kings will have a feature to convert games to EU2, so that people are able to play from 1066 to 1820 as many EU2 board members have requested. Don't you have anything better to do than constantly post on this message forum how horrible Paradox and the mods there are?

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Mordoch
Because YOU insist on doing so!

LOL. I did not insist on being banned, though you seem fond of assertions to the contrary. But I'm not the one calling this issue "silly" - clearly I feel it is among the most fundamental issues for a message board. I just don't understand why people who perceive it as "silly" like to come over here and rekindle things that might otherwise die a natural death?

Originally posted by Mordoch
...you continue to badmouth the people at Paradox every chance you get, and this could mislead people deciding if they should get EU2.

(yawn) you're getting repetitive. You continue to say so, but it simply isn't true. Please enlighten me as to when I have "badmouthed" the people at Paradox. I've been pointing out some serious flaws in the behavior of a certain forum moderator, if that's what you keep referring to. But he's pretty quick to point out that he doesn't work for Paradox. And, not that you'd ever notice, but I've had many more opportunities to "badmouth" him than I've pursued. I've said nothing but positive things about the game itself, but why would I want to mislead people about a significant shortcoming in the overall gaming experience (meaning the less-than-perfect "official" forum).

Originally posted by Mordoch
The fact of the matter is that the game programers routinely respond to questions asked about EU2, and even listen to people's requests when determining what features will be offered in future games...

One would have to be able to access the forum to ask such questions, wouldn't one? One cannot ask such questions if one has been banned for a violation of forum rules, can one? Banning can occur for violations of unwritten rules and ex post facto rules, can't it? A (new) forum rule is that you cannot publicly question ANY moderator behavior, no matter how egregrious, isn't it? You may not have a problem with all this. I do.

Originally posted by Mordoch
Don't you have anything better to do than constantly post on this message forum how horrible...the mods there are?

You're asking the wrong questions. Don't the mods have anything better to do than ban conscientous posters who simply point out weaknesses in their policies and behavior? Don't you have anything better to do than defend such an egregious over-reaction? Don't you have anything better to do than constantly imply that my issues with moderator mis-behavior are blanket attacks upon the game and/or the entire company.

[Tuberski]

So, basically you guys are saying that I should obey the rules as I agreed to do and I won't be banned. Gee, what a novel concept. By the way I bought this game after I started reading this thread.

And RobRoy before you defend WFHermans anymore, you should probably know he was banned from here for the same kind of crap.

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by Tuberski
....And RobRoy before you defend WFHermans anymore, you should probably know he was banned from here for the same kind of crap.

Thanks for the info, but I'm not defending him. I'm defending myself. His behavior may have been egregious and warranted a permanent ban, mine didn't.

I wouldn't actually mind being banned if I had actually had the pleasure of disobeying their rules. But I didn't (unless you count their unwritten or ex post facto rules). So don't count on avoiding a ban, just because you think you are adhering to the forum rules...you might not be. If you really care, the two posts that got me banned are probably still out there, unless they've been edited or deleted.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Tuberski
And RobRoy before you defend WFHermans anymore, you should probably know he was banned from here for the same kind of crap.

He was banned for doing the standard anti jewish rap...
But, to the best of my knowledge, he will be back in a week or two... But if he starts it all over again... he will earn himself another vacation. Eventually, he will either get the message, or spend long times on the restriction list

And if somebody wants to critize MtG (the mod that acted), feel free to post your comments in the Apolyton Community Forum. There is already a thread on the subject

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47957&pagenumber=3

[UnSounder]

lol! You had to ban him for anti-semitic stuff too? I think my point is made

C4

[RobRoy]

Originally posted by UnSounder
lol! You had to ban him for anti-semitic stuff too? I think my point is made

LOL. Funny I was just thinking MY point had been made. Let's see:

- one forum permanently bans people for engaging in some pretty mild questioning of moderator actions;

- another forum allows an extremist wide lattitude before temporarily banning him, meanwhile allowing/encouraging extensive discussion of the moderator(s) actions and forum standards.

I'm highly skeptical that your (surprisingly large) mod squad would know how to deal reasonably with the grilling Mark and Ming receive here on a regular basis. Well, short of banning everyone, that is...