are video card prices going to stay this low?

[Alinestra Covelia]

...young Padawan

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

IE this game reflects your worldview. That was precisely my point.

Well it's not that specific, and the 'eastern' element to the game helps to muddy the waters enough, enough to keep you guessing. It's plot or rather the background to the plot is very good. They did their research.

Now if there are lots of games that are like "USA! Yay! Third Way! Yay!" i would consider that balance. HL wasnt that though. IIUC COD4 isnt that.

Well this is where you can get into the games as art thing. I would argue that games like art are at heart a subversive medium. Obviously not always, but that spirit is quite close to the core of their inception.
And frankly THAT world view of America died it's death with the assasination of kennedy. Sure you can play that game, but deep in most peoples hearts they KNOW it's not all rosy any more. Things changed. And we are where we are because of it.

Do I have to play a WW2 game to have the US Govt as unabashed good guys?

Probably OR just finish Dues and make up your own mind - is it a patriotic game or not? I think it is actualy, I certainly felt like i had done the 'right thing' first time through, maybe less so on some of the other endings but they are all worth playing for imho. Some of the best game ends ever?

[Quillan]

What exactly is the "right thing"? Arguably any of the endings could be the right one depending on your point of view. I know which one I chose, and though I've tried all of them at various times I still think I chose the correct one. None are perfect, though. All had drawbacks.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

Now if there are lots of games that are like "USA! Yay! Third Way! Yay!" i would consider that balance. HL wasnt that though. IIUC COD4 isnt that.

In CoD4 the US guys have ostensibly important missions but somewhat amusingly the British special ops guys are doing all of hard work behind the scenes to make those missions successful.

[Solver]

But in the end, they make a world-saving push together, like good allies that looove each other

[El_Cid]

and we do!(Love each other) - on this side of the atlantic we are just more sceptical about the rhetoric.

@Quillan, yep that what is good about them, depending on your mind set when getting to a particular ending they all work. first time through i choose the fry it all and start over option.

back On topic:

http://www.dabs.com/ProductList.aspx?NavigationKey=11137&NavigationKey=12&CategorySelectedId=11137

looking at that list it seems the 8600GT is possibly the most powerfull passively cooled option(so no different from a 7600GT other than DX10)?
I stopped keeping up with details a year back when i got my 7600GT(silent), but i was hoping to find something better now with a silent option.

[Standup]

Haven't got the links on me but there's passively cooled 9600GT available.

I also read a review of passively cooled 9800GT but never actually found one - its a 8800GT anyway with a different name.

My 'silent' PC has a 7600GT and the 9600GT probably a big enough step up to spend the cash.

Edit: Link for 9600GT here.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by El_Cid

Well this is where you can get into the games as art thing. I would argue that games like art are at heart a subversive medium. Obviously not always, but that spirit is quite close to the core of their inception.

I would argue, of course, that there is nothing as subversive in the world as the spirit of democractic capitalism That the fashionable art world doesn't recognize that is mainly a matter of, well fashion and snobbery. Popular arts such as film, certainly can still find it, and games are more like film (except, as I suspect because their makers are often technopunk types)

And frankly THAT world view of America died it's death with the assasination of kennedy. Sure you can play that game, but deep in most peoples hearts they KNOW it's not all rosy any more. Things changed. And we are where we are because of it.

Nope. Not here at any rate. I think not in Israel, Taiwan, and a few parts of eastern europe, at a minimum. Have a nice day

[lord of the mark]

just to be clear on the issue of the "subversive" NSF stuff

you may think its leftist anti-US govt stuff - it is in fact RIGHT wing anti-world govt stuff - at the airport Paul Denton (if you talk to him a second time) tells you that the UN is subverting the US, and that the move toward "world govt" has been led by international bankers since the League of Nations. Which ties in well with the NSF view that pre-1900 was NOT plutocratic, something no Marxist would ever claim. This is the stuff of USA crank populism, that became so widespread in the '90s.

second, if you think im just being cranky myself, let me say that the presence of '90s black helicopter paranoia in a game set in 2050, breaks immersion, and is thus bad qua game.

third, now Ive met Paul at the airport, and I have to decide which side to take soon. I assume if I stay govt, it will be boring, more NSF people to kill. OTOH I dont like the games moral pressure to switch sides (the obvious thing about the virus being man made and all) nor do I like the NSF's militia politics - also I suspect there IS another big plot twist coming, though Im not sure which side will be more fun to play when that happens.

also I cant find lebedev - is he ON the plane?

[DrSpike]

He's hiding from you lest you overanalyse him instead of enjoying the game.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by DrSpike
He's hiding from you lest you overanalyse him instead of enjoying the game.

For sure!!!!

LotM - just play the darn game, save before you feel forced to take a side and you can always load back at some point(in fact Dues is best enjoyed when you do that, so you can uncover all the twists and great story and endings ).

And dont worry, the 'neo-cons' won't come kicking down your door to drag you off to guantanamo bay for being 'unpatriotic'..........probably

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detention_camp

Go Freedom! Go Democracy! (where's the american flag smilie when you need it?)

@ Standup, thanks for the info on the silent 9600, that might just be the one i'm looking for next. After having a silent card, I just cant see myself going back to the noise of fan based ones(even in very silent towers I can still hear them!).
Silence IS golden now in my gaming. Lucky I don't have a big thing about uber 3D games that need monsterous graphics cards!

Here is a detailed review of that card:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article821-page1.html

[Solver]

Lebedev is on the plain... if you're in the hangar where the plane is, just get on it. Without giving anything away, I think finding Lebedev is one of the finest parts of the game.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by El_Cid

And dont worry, the 'neo-cons' won't come kicking down your door to drag you off to guantanamo bay for being 'unpatriotic'..........probably

We're gonna have a big party here for our new prez in January. Y'all are invited. We're gonna wave lotsa flags and sing patriotic songs. Probably fireworks too.

Heres something to consider, sir - its easier for someone of Luo origin to get elected president of the US, then president of Kenya.


(too bad, again, that you are still misreading what I said about politics in Deus Ex though)

Solver - Ive been through the plane, but I will try again. I have no more lock pics, so I hope he isnt in the locked closet.

Doc - if this game wont sustain political analysis, why bother with all this heavy duty story - might as well be playing a platformer like Half Life.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

We're gonna have a big party here for our new prez in January. Y'all are invited. We're gonna wave lotsa flags and sing patriotic songs. Probably fireworks too.

I wave my flag for you on independance day

Heres something to consider, sir - its easier for someone of Luo origin to get elected president of the US, then president of Kenya.

Origin's are probably more important to your average american? As a white brit and humble servent of HM, I'm very positive for your new era in american politics. Lets hope it is as good as it should be

(too bad, again, that you are still misreading what I said about politics in Deus Ex though)

Solver - Ive been through the plane, but I will try again. I have no more lock pics, so I hope he isnt in the locked closet.

(Maybe - its quite possible)

And yes on the locked closet!(I got stuck on that one for a while also on my first play through).

[Solver]

Lebedev in the locked closet?? I'm sure he was in a biggish personal suite in the back of the plane. And I can't remember it being locked.

Okay, so it was locked. Isn't there a key somewhere? I believe the second floor control room had a key, isn't it to Lebedev's quarters?