New BioWare MMORPG: Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Asher]

The issue is risk, if you do something radically new and it sucks you flush all that money down the drain.

Do you have any concept of investment funding or how it works? You need to convince them you'll make money, and you can't do that with a radical new game design.

Sierra tried that and it basically took the company under when it turned out to suck.

Not sure you comprehend how expensive MMORPGs are. You live in a fantasy world of your own.

LOTRO is fun, it's very highly reviewed, and it has many subscribers and is profitable for Turbine. You think it's a failure because it didn't get 10 million WoW subscribers within a year of its launch, they think it's a success since it's well-reviewed and commercially successful. I think it's a success because I find it to be a better game than WoW, as do most of its players.

You can keep saying your stupid argument that every game needs to be radically different, but no one cares. Why don't you put $50M of your own funding up to make your own radically innovative MMORPG ,then we'll see what your opinion is.

So why is it so risky to try something different.

You can't be serious...

Because its all about being the next WoW, and LOTRO is no different.

It's about making a well-received game that turns a profit. Becoming the next WoW is nice, but no one seriously expects that. You have serious delusions if you think any MMORPG right now -- radically different or not -- can compete with the WoW juggernaut in terms of subscriber base.

In reality, people care about making a profit. A massive profit like WoW would be nice, but is not an expectation.

[conmcb25]

Then explain why EVE hasn't gone down the drain because there system is different, its a heck of a lot different. You keep saying unless they make a WoW clone, they won't make $$$. But EVE is the example that refutes that.

And please find the quote where I said LOTRO is a failure. I never said that. I said it was a disappointment. Because there is no dam reason why a game that has a magical liscense like Tolkien shouldn't be doing a lot better subscription wise. Especially since you claim its better than WoW. Something, I haven't refuted either.

The reason why it doesn't do better is because its the same old thing, and because it is people think, why should I leave my 800 lb gorilla?

You just don't get it Asher, but you keep rationalizing that 200 buck lifetime subscription

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25
Then explain why EVE hasn't gone down the drain because there system is different, its a heck of a lot different. You keep saying unless they make a WoW clone, they won't make $$$. But EVE is the example that refutes that.

Eve isn't significantly more successful than LOTRO. Actually it's taken far longer to get the same userbase LOTRO enjoys already.

I never made the claim that unique games are not successful, just that they are very risky. There are lots of unique MMORPGs, and frankly, they suck. Look at Concerto Gate or half of the MMORPGs coming out of Japan right now...brutal. I've never made the claim that they won't make money on unique games, my claim is that they are risky -- that's yet another one of your blatant lies and strawmen that I'm enraged with. You're one of the most dishonest debaters on this site, joining the ranks of Agathon and Ben Kenobi. Grow a pair and deal with what is said, not what you want to pretend I said.

You're hilarious because you're acting like LOTRO is a disappointment with a couple hundred thousand subscribers, yet Eve is a runaway success with a similar number of subscribers accumulated over a far longer time period as LOTRO.

FWIW, Eve's skill training system is one of the most retarded game designs, ever.

You just don't get it Asher, but you keep rationalizing that 200 buck lifetime subscription

I don't need to rationalize that, I've already played LOTRO enough that I've "paid it off" in monthly fees I'd have paid anyway. I'm sure you're capable of doing that math, right? You just choose not to. Just like you choose not to think when making arguments.

[conmcb25]

You say its risky but you don't back that up. I say its not as risky as you make it out to be because we have an example of the very thing, you are saying is risky.

I never said EVE was hugely successfull. I said it was different and it continues to make money and see growth 5 years after release.

And it has more subscribers than LOTRO (Assuming the site previously mentioned is somewhat accurate), and it doesn't have anywhere near the name brand recognition LOTRO has.

Tell me Asher, why doesn't LOTRO have a bigger Fanbase then it does with the Name recognition it has? Why doesn't it have more subscribers, because you claim that its better than WoW (and I agree)?

And I don't want to hear how its making money, bla bla bla. Sure it is.

I want to know why Turbine didn't hit the ball out of the park with one of the biggest name brands in the MMO market?

Answer me that?

You won't because you know the answer, but you keep denying it. Its because its basically the same thing, done again and again.

[Asher]

In further "conmcb25 has no idea what the **** he is talking about" news, the new game seems to have lots of MMORPG innovations, including companion characters, branching dialog trees, love interests, and irreversible choices.

Hardly a WoW clone from what I hear.

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25
You say its risky but you don't back that up.

Again, stopped reading after this.

What kind of moron asks someone to back up the claim that spending tens of millions of dollars to develop a game based on fundamentally unproven gameplay mechanics is risky?

Answer: conmcb25.

I don't believe anyone can be this stupid, but you surprise me... Blizzard took what you call the "themepark MMORPG", a sub-genre that existed long before Blizzard approached it, and made a game with few actual innovations in it. It is wildly successful.

You are now making the claim that everyone is copying WoW every time they make a "themepark MMORPG", even if it's a company that is one of the originators of the "themepark MMORPG" game designs. You don't see the problem with that?

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
* UnOrthOdOx hands out the popcorn

/me grabs some.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Asher
What kind of moron asks someone to back up the claim that spending tens of millions of dollars to develop a game based on fundamentally unproven gameplay mechanics is risky?

Answer: conmcb25.

Again wrong, explain away EVE Online then. Thats far from an unproven game mechanic. Been around for 5 years. Good solid steady growth, and better subscription numbers than your game LOTRO, which I might add has an infinately more marketable storyline.

Explain why SWG after the Combat Upgrade which essentially half arsed changed the game to a level system from a skils based system had there market share decrease, and once they completely changed it to a level based system the subscription numbers plummeted.

And you are still avoiding the question of why Turbine hasn't hit the ball out of the park on LOTRO, with one of the hugest name brands of all time?

[conmcb25]

And Ill go out on a limb right now and say this, and Im not quite ready to make this prediction yet because I would like to know more details about the Kotor MMO first.

But with this caveat, the caveat being that if they make this another typical themepark game, even though its Star Wars, and even though its Bioware, the numbers won't be much better than LOTRO. The initail buys might be high but after 6 months to a year the subscription numbers will drop to around LOTRO levels.

[Patroklos]

I was sort of hoping this thread would be about the game

This popcorn is stale also

[snoopy369]

Alright, you two, if you make every RPG thread into a flamefest I'm going to make a special forum that only the two of you can read and banish you to it ...

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Patroklos
This popcorn is stale also

You probably made the mistake of taking the front bag. Always take the bag from the back, it's the freshest.

[conmcb25]

I continue to attack the idea and not the opponent, contrary to my oppositon

If I have stepped out of bounds, my apologises Snoop.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Patroklos
I was sort of hoping this thread would be about the game

Unfortunately its probably too early to know that much about the game, other than whats been posted in the links.

The one thing bioware has got going for it in the development is the ability to make a darn good storyline. or at least the track record to back it up IMHO.

And they alluded to that at there site.

I suggest you read the link, Asher posted above, and also the Gamestop article which is in the Gamestop News section. Both are pretty good at describing where the game stands right now, and the goals for development.

Thats pretty much all we know right now since the official announcement is brand new.

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25
Again wrong, explain away EVE Online then.

One game with a couple hundred subscribers does not mean any new game design mechanic is not risky. This is even dumber than your first statement.

Unless you mean LOTRO should have "cloned" EVE Online in basic design, in which case that is a new record of stupidity.