Lord of the Rings Online

[DrSpike]

So you agree that WoW is the best all-round game?

[Asher]

No, but it is the jack of all trades. There's something for everyone, even though it's not particularly good at any one element.

I would also like to remind the resident economist that when I quote something, it means I am not the author of it and therefor the words inside that quote do not necessarily represent my opinion.

Do I need to add a disclaimer every time something is quoted, or can you agree to use some judgment in the future?

[Zero]

Originally posted by DrSpike
It's a shame that the PvP sucks. WoW PvP has picked up a lot in the recent expansion from what I can see.

That has yet to be tested. Anyone can nerf the OPness and buff the brokeness and call t a day. We'll see how good Wotlk is in PVP soon enough.

And once the effects of changes are finally realized and it turns out its unbalanced then what? Time to wait for another major patch/expansion? meh.

I think the devs aren't even interested in a balanced game TBH. WoW is designed around the carrot on a stick design for PVP and PVE players and it would be stupid of them to undo that for sake of PvP balance.

[vee4473]

Originally posted by DrSpike
It's a shame that the PvP sucks. WoW PvP has picked up a lot in the recent expansion from what I can see.

Well, the only reason that it may have picked up (if that's true) is because it seems to be emulating Warhammer's type of "RVR" pvp by dedicating a whole area to pvp with destructable buildings. Kind of like an effort to stunt whatever attraction Warhammer may have on WoW players by adding a similar type zone. Yet with no real purpose, as usual. A mediocre effort to simulate what some other game is all about in order to retain players. The whole "taking someone elses idea and making it your own" thing. But in a half assed way.

A good pre-emptive move, but seems right in line with their "observe and copy" strategy. Instead of actually generating anything really new on their own part.

I still believe that most people playing wow are in the boat of "I've spent so much time here, I can't imagine trying anything else.".

Someone at work said as much to me. I mentioned how I was enjoying lotro and warhammer, but found little time to advance very far in either at the same time. He said that he'd love to try others but he literrally has 3 70's in WOW and can't imagine starting over or dividing time between 2 mmo's. Even though he admits that other games interest him to try. Very anecdotal, yes, but it has merit.

I think MMO's in general can't be judged by subscriber base simply because of this. So many people keep playing one game, not because it is great, but because they have invested so much time in it, and knowing it would be the same in any other MMO, can't imagine "starting over". Regardless of the higher quality of any other game.

The Lake Wintergrasp area in WoW is so obviously a copy of Warhammer in an effort to blunt any attraction to it that it almost makes me embarrassed for Blizzard. "Let's make anyone interested in Warhammers RvR city sieges and world pvp lose interest by giving them an area that mimics it". That type of thing.

Even though the whole concept of lake wintergrasp isn't anything close to what Warhammer is all about. But Blizzard tries to insult your intelligence by basically saying "here's our warhammer pvp equivalent, come on and play". Even though it isn't.

But, it's enough for a try at least.

I don't know. It kinda feeds right into the whole WoW is a jack of all trades but master of none.

Warhammer blows it away for pvp and LOTRO blows it away for pve. WoW is like the defintion of "trying to please all , but pleasing none as a result".

I'm very much expecting to see Blizzard implement a type of epic lore based questline. It seems the next natural step for them in their efforts.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Asher
t quote do not necessarily represent my opinion.

Do I need to add a disclaimer every time something is quoted, or can you agree to use some judgment in the future?

Absolutely.

The disclaimer is needed.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Asher


I would also like to remind the resident economist that when I quote something, it means I am not the author of it and therefor the words inside that quote do not necessarily represent my opinion.

I know that and agree - but somehow I still find it fun to read through and find the bits I know you won't like.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by DrSpike


I know that and agree - but somehow I still find it fun to read through and find the bits I know you won't like.

Delusion is so fun to watch though

[Asher]

I'd be really curious to see what the new subscriber numbers are. The servers are under incredibly high loads which is causing some issues right now during peak hours.

[Asher]

http://www.massively.com/2008/12/09/why-you-should-be-playing-lord-of-the-rings-online-the-warden/

Why you should be playing Lord of the Rings Online: The Warden

by Tateru Nino Dec 9th 2008 at 12:30PM

Filed under: Fantasy, Lord of the Rings Online, Classes, Game mechanics, Opinion, Why You Should Be Playing

The Warden class in the Lord of the Rings Online (introduced with the new Mines of Moria expansion) is, all things considered, a blast to play. A capable jack-of-all-trades class, rich in tactical options. Not a class for those who prefer their combat to be a bit mindless, the Warden keeps you thinking.

The biggest downfall of the Warden is probably hubris.

You see, the Warden is capable. Very capable. Durable in a fight, with a mix of melee and range attacks, and a variety of support powers, when they come up against opponents without special attacks (poison, stunning and so forth) such as orcs or brigands, Wardens can quite comfortably take on foes up to five levels or so above their own. The downside of this is that it can often lead you into trouble.

Read on to find out why I love the kind of trouble the Warden offers.


A Warden is a medium-armor user, and as they become accustomed to taking on foes well above their own level, well ... when things go wrong for the Warden, they can go wrong very quickly. An unexpected extra foe or a creature with an unexpected attack ability can spell swift defeat for Wardens who are overreaching themselves.

Primarily focused on spear and shield combat, with a javelin for ranged combat (a sort of roaming hoplite or lone phalanxer), the Warden excels at both defense and damage. Somewhat like a tank archetype, they can soak a fair bit of damage, but unlike most tanks they can also dish it out. The Warden can also be capable with clubs and swords, but realistically, they're best served ignoring those weapons entirely in favor of the spear.

As the Warden advances, they can move with stealth, heal themselves (heal-over-time for short periods), boost their defense, apply damage over time, or increase their threat (in short bursts, or over time) in order to pull rude strangers away from beleaguered companions.

The Warden's Ambush ability allows them to strike and daze a distant opponent. It also boosts their run speed so that they can rush to close combat range and deliver an extra-damage Critical Strike to stunned foes.

The core of Warden combat involves Gambits, which are essentially a sort of finishing-move. The Warden's spear, shield and taunt attack abilities when used in certain combinations enable them to trigger the Gambits they've learned. Gambits are powerful and versatile, at the cost of requiring two or three preceding attacks to enable.

There are a number of Gambits to keep track of, but they're doled out to you at a measured pace as you level up, so if you can manage the first three or four, it is unlikely that you'll be overwhelmed (though perhaps some gambits might go forgotten at times). Initially these gambits require only two moves to unlock, but higher level gambits can string together three-four-even five moves before completing.

The level-15 class-quest for the Warden is appropriate, and well-thought out. Go well-equipped, though, because it is a tough one, but the skill award and powerful shield reward.

Despite that, at higher levels, the Warden becomes something of an answer without a question. As a jack-of-all-trades they become increasingly outmatched in each field by the specialist classes. While a Warden is an asset to virtually any unbalanced fellowship (teaming well with most other classes and bringing something unique to the table), in a group that already has a balanced set of classes, the Warden can seem like a bit of a fifth wheel.

Unless you're always playing in a balanced and regular play-group, however, the Warden finds a workable place in most fellowships, as well as kicking several kinds of butt in solo play.

Overall, the Warden is a lot of fun to play in a group, a lot of fun to solo with, and unlike some classes, they click almost right away. Don't be surprised to see quite a few Wardens dashing about Middle-earth at the moment. Within your first few levels, you'll know if the class suits you. They're full of deliciously surprising abilities as they level-up.

[Asher]

Turbine launches my.lotro.com

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[Asher]

Forochell zone

[DrSpike]

Interesting that the early reviews have been strong but not great.

[Asher]

Early reviews of what?

The publication-reviewed scores of Mines of Moria are around 90%, comparable to Wrath of the Lich King. User-reviewed scores are much higher (also 90%, vs 70% for Lich King).

Honestly, it shames the Lich King expansion. It's one of those cases where a highly anticipated game scores higher than it should because of anticipation by a great many people.

It adds a mundane half-class (Death Knight being L50+), some new zones/raids, and 10 levels that was trivial to obtain...

The Mines of Moria offered tons more. I'm still not L60 (up to 54 now), and from what I've seen the design of the Mines of Moria itself is both far larger than the new zones in Warcraft, but better also. Not to mention the legendary item system (which is phenomenal, I expect WoW to copy this for the next expansion) and two full, unique classes with their own gameplay mechanics...and even crafting guilds...it's really no contest.

[DrSpike]

The user reviews for WoW are low because of all the WoW haters. It happens for lots of the big games that sell really well.

The wider reviews are 88% for MoM compared to 91% for WoW. Not much difference but still different. MoM has quite a few more reviews to come in though so could still go up or down.

I expect that it's the lacklustre PvP compared to WoW that is keeping it low.

[Asher]

No, it's all of the hype for WoW that is keeping it high.

MoM is in another league from WoW's expansion. Blizzard should actually be ashamed how little content is in their expansion given their revenues and size. Turbine has schooled them there.

The sample size of the media reviews illustrates this. Look how many sites reviewed Lich King vs Moria. It's unfair to compare their averages given only four scores for Moria and many, many more for WoW -- but it's that same kind of fervour for the title that elevates its review scores.

EuroGamer gave Lich King a 100% for Christ sake. That's just embarrassing.