Lord of the Rings Online

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Asher
Trolling bullcrap

Google Middle Earth Online and then tell me that wasn't the name of the game being developed by Turbine before it was called LOTRO.

This was the only specific announcement I could find in 2005. That was ages after Sierra either gave up or went broke, I honestly can't remember which, and that was back in the 1990's. I dont believe Turbine got the franchise till after the turn of the Century. I started watching them in earnest around 2003.

http://www.gamerscircle.net/2005/04/30/middle-earth-online-becomes-lord-of-the-rings-online/

So who is full of crap now?

Is the state of education in Canada really that bad?

[conmcb25]

and Straight from Wikipedia:

Sierra On-Line first announced the development of a licensed Middle-earth MMORPG in 1998. Sierra had financial troubles in 1999 and replaced the staff working on the game. Sierra continued to confirm development of the MMORPG but did not release any development details.

Vivendi Universal Games, the parent company of Sierra, secured eight-year rights to produce computer and video games based on The Lord of the Rings books in 2001. Vivendi announced an agreement with Turbine in 2003 to produce Middle-earth Online (at that time expected to be released in 2004). In March 2005, Turbine announced that it bought the rights to make an MMORPG based on Tolkien's literature and that Turbine would publish The Lord of the Rings Online instead of Vivendi.

A closed beta was announced on September 8, 2006. An open beta began on March 30, 2007, and was open to all who pre-ordered the game's Founders Club edition. On April 6, 2007, the beta opened to the public.

[Asher]

If you have actually followed the game and you actually understand Turbine's history and can actually read what you just quoted, Vivendi announced an agreement with Turbine to PRODUCE Middle-Earth Online to be released in 2004. Obviously that NEVER HAPPENED because Vivendi CANCELLED THE PROJECT and all code that Sierra had developed for that project went with it.

Turbine then independently started new development in March 2005 of Lord of the Rings Online after it bought the license itself. It does NOT in any way have anything to do with what Sierra had previously produced. They just used the opportunity to buy the license themselves and do what they wanted to do.

The reason it's "so similar" to so many other MMORPGs on the market is because the LOTRO engine dates back to 1996 in its original version, which was Asheron's Call (the "Turbine Engine"). They had a new version called "G2" which powered Asheron's Call 2, and Dungeons and Dragons Online (G2.5) while LOTRO is G3. It's a further customization of an existing MMORPG codebase, a "themepark MMORPG" codebase as you describe it. The codebase LOTRO is based on is fundamentally one of the original versions of the "themepark MMORPG" design that WoW actually itself copied from the originals like Everquest and Turbine's own Asheron's Call (this is one reason I dislike you calling it a "WoW" clone since WoW actually is based off of earlier versions of Turbine's design).

Thus, it should be VERY OBVIOUS, that the current incarnation of LOTRO as developed by Turbine and based off over 10 years of Turbine MMORPG code was never meant to be something radically different "skill-based" as you described -- what you described was what SIERRA was working on.

CLASS DISMISSED.

[conmcb25]

No Asher

Turbine was developing Middle Earth Online, bought out the Namr brand in 2005 and renamed it.

Class isn't closed because you don't know (as usual) what you are talking about.

Vivendi announced an agreement with Turbine in 2003 to produce Middle-earth Online (at that time expected to be released in 2004).

That was a pathetic attempt to discredit the source of someone you disagree with but know is right because quite frankly you can't come up with anything better.

[Asher]

Dude, announced in 2003 and released in 2004 -- how much work do you think Turbine did on that game before Sierra, who owned the code, went under?

Turbine announced their own MMORPG after its cancellation, based on Turbine's own MMORPG engine, and called it Lord of the Rings Online (which is a different game than Middle Earth Online, which Sierra developed and Turbine may have worked on for a few months before Sierra imploded).

This is not difficult. The fact that "Middle Earth Online" was NOT released in 2004 should make it obvious what happened to Sierra's game.

[conmcb25]

No Asher

Turbine was working on MEO in 2003, and 2004. I remember well the information blackout during most of 2004 and early 2005, and was wondering (along with everyone else at there forums) wtf?

Then the announcement came that they bought themselves out from under Vivendi, and changed the name. Then we knew why there was an information blackout.

They said "EXPECTED" to be released.

Reading comprehension FTW.

You are wrong plain and simple. Accept it and move on.

[Asher]

You're ****ing retarded.

LOTRO is based on Turbine's internal engine which dates back to the late 90s.

Sierra had developed Middle Earth Online on its own starting in the late 90s, which had the "skill-based" system you mentioned. The game obviously ****ing sucked, so they tried to bring in Turbine to fix it up (as they have MMORPG experience). They worked on it for LESS THAN A YEAR (you make it sound like two) before the project was CANCELLED and the code was THROWN AWAY, and LOTRO development was started based on the Asheron's Call 2 engine ("G2" at the time), a more traditional "themepark" MMORPG.

You're claiming Turbine's original game design had a skill-based system because Sierra's original game spec from the late 90s had it. They came to Turbine because their game sucked and it needed fixing. They decided it wasn't worth fixing, cancelled it, and Turbine bought the license themselves and started completely fresh.

I'm not wrong, I've been following Turbine since the original Asheron's Call in 1998 which is still one of my favourite games of all time.

You're confused because you don't see the disconnect between Sierra Online's IP (Middle Earth Online), which was cancelled, then an independent, new IP owned by Turbine (Lord of the Rings Online). The game wasn't "renamed", that's just some confusion by some journalists. "Middle Earth Online" was Sierra's game that Turbine tried to help with for less than a year, "Lord of the Rings Online" is Turbine's own game based on Turbine's own MMORPG engine.

[Lul Thyme]

I'm not wrong, I've been following Turbine since the original Asheron's Call in 1998 which is still one of my favourite games of all time.

Solclaim

[conmcb25]

One year, 18 months or two years, whats the difference.

You said Turbine was NOT working on MEO. I said they were.

You were wrong, and I was right. I never said they worked on it forever, and you don't know for a fact what the heck Turbine was doing in 2004, and early 2005.

There website (Turbines) indicated a skills based game. That didn't change until after they bought out the liscense from Vivendi.

Thats fact, doesn't mean they were actively working on it or not, and neither of us know that.

The bottomline line is you were wrong and I was right. I know you find that hard to stomach, but I thought you would be used to being disproven by now

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25
One year, 18 months or two years, whats the difference.

You said Turbine was NOT working on MEO. I said they were.

You were wrong, and I was right. I never said they worked on it forever, and you don't know for a fact what the heck Turbine was doing in 2004, and early 2005.

This is my last reply to you, you're driving me ****ing crazy like Ben Kenobi and Agathon.

- Middle Earth Online was Sierra/Vivendi's IP, not Turbine's
- Turbine was brought in during the last year to try to fix a terrible game. You have claimed that the original concept was "more interesting" but the companies found it so bad they delayed it for years then cancelled it.
- When the project was cancelled, Turbine saw potential in a Lord of the Rings MMORPG so they bought up the license themselves and then started their own MMORPG based off their own engine, it was not a continuation of Middle Earth Online development and it was not their original design like you have claimed to have a skill-based system.

[conmcb25]

I never said it was a continuation, I said the original design premises were scrapped. And LOTRO was a result.

You said Turbine did not work on MEO. They did. You were wrong, and I was right.

Just like I am right about every point in this thread.

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25
I never said it was a continuation, I said the original design premises were scrapped. And LOTRO was a result.

You said Turbine did not work on MEO. They did. You were wrong, and I was right.

Just like I am right about every point in this thread.

What I said was:

For instance, "Middle Earth Online" is 100% different from LOTRO. Middle Earth Online was under development by Sierra in the late 1990s. LOTRO is by Turbine, a completely different company. For somebody who supposedly followed the project for years before release, that's a major factual error.

I never said Turbine didn't work at all on Middle Earth Online, what I said is they are 100% different games. Sierra did 95% of the design and development on Middle Earth Online, Turbine was brought in to make it suck less (eg, undo the "skill based" system you thought was cool), but in the end it was not worth it and they cancelled it.

Thus LOTRO was born. It was not "renamed" as you have stated, it's a 100% different game designed and developed by Turbine, as I have stated.

You were wrong, you are wrong, and I have no doubts you will continue to be wrong. Deal with it.

PS:

I never said it was a continuation

Then why the **** were you finding and quoting poorly written articles saying the game was "re-named", indicating a continuation? Do you have no concept of honesty?
You have very clearly indicated it was a continuation:

Google Middle Earth Online and then tell me that wasn't the name of the game being developed by Turbine before it was called LOTRO.

[conmcb25]

Originally posted by Asher
For instance, "Middle Earth Online" is 100% different from LOTRO. Middle Earth Online was under development by Sierra in the late 1990s. LOTRO is by Turbine, a completely different company. For somebody who supposedly followed the project for years before release, that's a major factual error.

Here is where you are trying to separate the two. Here is where you insinuated that Sieraa did MEO ONLY, and Turbine did LOTRO Only.

But its clear that Turbine worked on MEO after Sieraa, and before LOTRO.

Since Sierra started this in the 1990's it was about an MMO in Middle Earth. First Sierra then Turbine worked on Meo under Vivendi. Then Turbine bought the game rights and changed the name, and the core game play.

I don't know where you are getting this Turbine worked on LOTRO from the beginning with there AC game engine. You don't know that for a fact.

All I know is Turbine was talking about MEO at there website in 2003, and was discussing a skills based system. Then a news blackout for almost a year around 2004 to 2005. Then they bought it and changed it. Including adopting the "themepark sub genre", which we came to discover soon there after.

If you dont want to call that a continuation fine, but the bottom line before and after 2005, its was a MMO in ME.

You want to assume the reason the core game play was changed (or thrown out and started afresh or whatever the heck you want to call it) because a different system sucked.

But what happened during the 2003-2005 time frame? WoW took the MMO world by storm. The Turbine guys talked about that quite a bit. NOT EQ but WoW. So IMHO they basically sold out, and made another, albiet a better, WoW clone or whatever term you want to use.

[Asher]

Originally posted by conmcb25


Here is where you are trying to separate the two. Here is where you insinuated that Sieraa did MEO ONLY, and Turbine did LOTRO Only.

But its clear that Turbine worked on MEO after Sieraa, and before LOTRO.

WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM.

****.

I've said very clearly very often Turbine was brought in to try to fix up the game Sierra had made. The game was cancelled and tossed. End of discussion.

Sierra/Vivendi was the producer of that game and had the say in its direction, design, and subsequent cancellation. Turbine was merely hired as developers very very late into the game cycle. That doesn't even really count given how little time they spent on it.

The KEY POINT is Middle Earth Online has nothing to do with Lord of the Rings Online. This is in CONTRAST to your original claims and something you STILL haven't admitted.

[conmcb25]

It has everything to do with it. They are both MMO's set in Middle Earth, and that concept was worked on by several publishers and developers.

Its an MMO in ME, worked on by the same people in ome case, how can they not have something to do with each other?

At least to the point where Turbine said this idea sucks, lets do something different, which is your claim, or are you now admitting thats a wrong assumption, and the real reason they aren't close to being similar is the WoW influence?

Are you finally admitting thats the REAL reason?