Deus Ex 3

[Solver]

Yeah, a shame. I can't remember why exactly, but I remember that I discovered that thread after the really interesting part was over

[Nacht]

Originally posted by Solver
It's a solid game in fact...

It was however way too easy. I remember trying a deusex style no-hurting-no-killing walkthrough and while the start was a bit challenging, I could complete the second half of the game just being invisible all the time

[DrSpike]

It wasn't that easy on realistic difficulty.

[Nacht]

The difficulty level really doesn't matter that much if you can be invisible all the time

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Solver
Bioshock came closer in that regard IMO. It did have an interesting story and messages from characters.

There are other games with a good story, there just really aren't that combine a great story with great gameplay the way Deus Ex does. Or games that even try to have DeusEx-style gameplay for that matter. Most games still only give you one or two ways to approach an area.

I don't think so. Bioshock is pretty much the same game every time you play. You were pretty much forced to do what the developers wanted you to and there weren't *that* many secrets to uncover.

[Solver]

I don't think so. Bioshock is pretty much the same game every time you play. You were pretty much forced to do what the developers wanted you to and there weren't *that* many secrets to uncover.

Yes, one path through it, and without stealth even being an option. IMO the "Deus Ex" part of Bioshock is in audio messages and various social commentary spread throughout the game.

It was however way too easy. I remember trying a deusex style no-hurting-no-killing walkthrough and while the start was a bit challenging, I could complete the second half of the game just being invisible all the time

Yeah, IW was too easy. The problem was, it was way too easy to max out your augmentations and they'd be really powerful, anyway lacking the subtlety of Deus Ex augs. In IW, Aggressive Defense (blowing up enemy rockets) was the worst. You just turned it on and watched Templar Paladins blow themselves up.

[CerberusIV]

The main problem with IW was that they dumbed it down for consoles and lost the subtlety of the original PC game. Now that consoles can handle a bit more hopefully they can put more into the game.

I'd particularly like to get back to the nice big maps in the original rather than the little ones in IW - it got very boring waiting for yet another map to load just to walk through it to get somewhere else.

[Solver]

Consoles schmonsoles... I'm no console expert but was there really anything in the original that 2001 consoles couldn't handle? I'm afraid they just wanted to dumb down IW because they thought Deus Ex was too complex for most players. Maybe the subtleties of it were too complex for most, but it'll be helluva shame if they go for a simplified game again.

[Vesayen]

I could of sworn I made a post, so either it was deleted by a moderator or I am going crazy, OR I posted it on another forum.

DX3 will suffer from consolitis. Almost any game released on the PC and the console will suck as it has been "dumbed down".

People point to bioshock to proove it is not true. I felt bioshock was dumbed down, infinite respawns anyone? Small box like rooms, another symptom of consolitis? Bioshock was good, but not great.

Fine, one exception. Point to ANOTHER game developed both for the PC and a console at the same time which did not suck.

[Quillan]

Perhaps we have different definitions of "dumbed down". Obviously with some consoles the power of the console is significantly lower than that of a good gaming PC, so any game built for both will cater to the lowest common denominator, which if I remember correctly was the "justification" for the splitting of the levels in Thief Deadly Shadows and the cramped confines of the city zones, or even for the zones themselves. The Xbox and the PS2 just didn't have enough memory to handle fully designed levels.

However, I refer to "dumbing down" as something different. I like complexity. I like a game that requires me to use my brain. Invisible War automatically input the passcodes once you found them. The inventory system was so simplified from the original it wasn't even funny. Combining the multi-tool and the lockpick into a single device no longer required you to consider which skill to concentrate on, or which item you wanted to carry in quantity. ALL weapons used the same ammo, so you didn't have to worry about overusing a single weapon and running out, or having the right ammo for the foe you were facing.

The developers like to talk about making their games more accessible, which to me sounds like designing for the lowest common denominator out there. Game is too hard for some people? Let's make it easier! Game is to complex for some people? Let's make it simpler! Only someone with above average intelligence can handle the game? Let's simplify things to less intelligent people can progress! The rest will still buy the game. We'll design the interface for controllers, and not bother with making a version to take advantage of a keyboard and mouse that every PC has.

[Vesayen]

Dumbed down means the game has less complexity both in gameplay elements and general design elements, like level design.

That is exactly what they do, they release the game for the lowest common denominator.

[Solver]

However, I refer to "dumbing down" as something different. I like complexity. I like a game that requires me to use my brain. Invisible War automatically input the passcodes once you found them. The inventory system was so simplified from the original it wasn't even funny. Combining the multi-tool and the lockpick into a single device no longer required you to consider which skill to concentrate on, or which item you wanted to carry in quantity. ALL weapons used the same ammo, so you didn't have to worry about overusing a single weapon and running out, or having the right ammo for the foe you were facing.

Yep. That sums up my problems with IW very fine. That, plus the ease of maxing out augmentations and their dumbing down, too.

[Wiglaf]

However, I refer to "dumbing down" as something different. I like complexity. I like a game that requires me to use my brain. Invisible War automatically input the passcodes once you found them.

Yes, because having to remember/look up passcodes you've already found when you come to a locked room is really taxing on the brain. Not a waste of time at all.

he inventory system was so simplified from the original it wasn't even funny.

Might not have been funny, but it was definitely an improvement.

ALL weapons used the same ammo, so you didn't have to worry about overusing a single weapon and running out, or having the right ammo for the foe you were facing.

Good, that is also annoying.

Has anyone here actually played the original? Go download it and actually try playing it for a few hours. It's terrible by any recent standard. HELLO I'M A CHARACTER IN DEUS EX. I LOOK LIKE ASS. SO DOES THE ENVIRONMENT. OH DAMN WHAT WAS THAT PASSCODE? LET ME GO PAGE THROUGH MY ****ING NOTES AND FIND IT! THIS IS GREAT FUN GUYZ

[Solver]

I replayed Deus Ex some 3 or 4 months ago. Wasn't bothered by its age in the slightest.

[Wiglaf]

Are you blind?