just ordered CK

[lord of the mark]

From Amazon, $10 US.

While I await the delivery, who or what should I play as the first time, to see what the game is like?

[El_Cid]

Difficult to say - pick a region, kingdom you have an effinity with.

For example if I want to have a struggle I like to play as either scotland or wales, but if I want to engage in the serious business of empire I play as england, and breed into that line lots of celts. That is really the only way a smaller power can play on the big stage from what I've experienced.

[lord of the mark]

Well I doubt there are any Jewish dynasties in it, and there certainly won't be any based in greater New York or from Virginia, and I'm not suring playing as a Polish Catholic or Lithuanian prince from the area that my grandparents came from is really appealing.

So I'm more inclined to go with what makes most sense in terms of learning the game mechanics.

In Victoria, for example, that was Belgium, which was strong enough to get a good economy going, but small enough to be manageable. Im not sure if there is an equivalent for CK.

[El_Cid]

I'd say go for that Lithuanian Prince - but only for the role play.

I don't actualy like knowing a games mechanics too well....although I know this is an impossible thing on many levels.

I think for me it goes something like if i know i'm playing a game, i'm not playing a game.
It's one reason I quite liked the CTP games(over Civ2 for example), I never could work out exaclty how much food I could produce in relation to the city radius/population etc. Also KoDP is very much like that, it's almost impossible to pin down a specific mechanic that enables you to find the 'I win button' techniques.

So I play for the emotional attatchment I can form with a game, more than for learning the exact mechanics and steps I need to take to beat it. So in this respect I can't help you with your question sadly.

It would be interesting to play as the Lithuanians i'm sure

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by El_Cid
I'd say go for that Lithuanian Prince - but only for the role play.

I don't actualy like knowing a games mechanics too well....although I know this is an impossible thing on many levels.

I think for me it goes something like if i know i'm playing a game, i'm not playing a game.
It's one reason I quite liked the CTP games(over Civ2 for example), I never could work out exaclty how much food I could produce in relation to the city radius/population etc. Also KoDP is very much like that, it's almost impossible to pin down a specific mechanic that enables you to find the 'I win button' techniques.

So I play for the emotional attatchment I can form with a game, more than for learning the exact mechanics and steps I need to take to beat it. So in this respect I can't help you with your question sadly.

It would be interesting to play as the Lithuanians i'm sure

Im not talking about knowing all the equations cold to optimize performance, just having a vague idea of whats going on, so I dont blow it all by declaring war right away when I should have built up, that sort of thing.

[lord of the mark]

anyway, I checked the Paradox forums, and someone mentioned playing as the Duchy of Apulia as being easy for noobs, so Im doing that.

First thing I did, was, I wondered where the hell are the Normans in Sicily? Then I realized I WAS the Normans in Sicily

Then I tried attacking the Arabs in Sicily, and really messed up. The simplified sea transport mechanic makes this very different from EU or Vicky - the AI was quick to move lots of troops from North Africa to Sicily.

[El_Cid]

Yeah making(and the AI responding to) military actions is much less complicated in CK......I kind of like that as it feels more like a civ-esque game in that respect: raise troops-move them-attack.
EU2 i found very unweildy in terms of military conquest, although i appriciate it was more a geo-political strat game rather than a war game.

So from lithuanian princeling to nordic/french/italian godfather! your ancestors would turn in their graves!

Don't worry, I can actualy hear mine turning when I start a game as the English - still what can a celt do to stand a chance?

Anyway I hope you are enjoying it - i really like the whole dynasty building thing, it's pretty close to a method I've been working on in my long-time game project.

The new expansion sounds very promising, but untill the CTD thing is sorted I will manage without - although finding good brides is very hit+miss(you can find a tool to download on the CK forums somewhere if you find you need it).

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

Im not talking about knowing all the equations cold to optimize performance, just having a vague idea of whats going on, so I dont blow it all by declaring war right away when I should have built up, that sort of thing.

Thats kind of what I mean also - go for something you know about. For me the relationship between Scotland/Ireland/Wales/England are well established in my mind, so i find it easy to play one of these. Whats your knowledge like on your ancient european heritage? If you know the enemies of Lithuania at this time period, or the challanges they faced that can help your game start.

Still your norman-mafia game sounds like it could be fun

[lord of the mark]

Er, my ancestors werent close to being lithuanian princes, and didnt arrive in Lith (probably) till the end of the period of this game, when they were expelled from France and the Rhineland.

State I probably know most about is England (cause Im an AMERICAN, d,uh and we do get a little of 1066 and all that, ya know - its the mother country) and France.

But Im finding the Hautevilles more interesting.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Er, my ancestors werent close to being lithuanian princes, and didnt arrive in Lith (probably) till the end of the period of this game, when they were expelled from France and the Rhineland.

State I probably know most about is England (cause Im an AMERICAN, d,uh and we do get a little of 1066 and all that, ya know - its the mother country) and France.

But Im finding the Hautevilles more interesting.

expelled from france+germany! sounds interesting my step dads ancestors were expelled from Norway for not becoming christians, then they moved to scotland and became one of the clans there. History is fascinating

Anyway glad you are enjoying the game. Playing as the English(technicaly they didn't exist at this period) is ok actualy, its not too hard and gives you plenty of scope so I would recomend it. William the b*stard is pretty good and that means your descendents get a good start compared to many others(the scots+welsh are aweful in comparison).

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by El_Cid


expelled from france+germany! sounds interesting

Im Jewish, El Cid, thats just the basic outline of Ashkenazic Jewish history.

[El_Cid]

erm well i put my foot in my mouth there didn't I.

I thought you were meaning back in the period of the games timeline, sorry to bring up any painful memmories lotm.

I agree what you said in the sims thread about the dynasty aspect of CK and maybe a parrallel to the sims, obviously a very distant one games wise, but i know what you mean.

In my model the inheritid traits are less severe/dominant, this becomes a problem in CK(Total war also since medieval1) if you only have access to poorly rated kings.

This kind of thing is actualy my biggest gripe about paradox games(like EU+CK), there really are better nations to start as that really effect your chances of winning the game.

I prefer the player experience to be more based on the outcome of their in game actions, but again you can make these effects in such a system too overpowering. e.g in TW Medieval2 it was really easy to pick up bad character traits just by doing nothing(sitting in a city).

But the whole inherited genetics thing in CK is very interesting, I particularily like how your descendents will keep certain physical attributes, my Kings of wales all had huge noses for example. Its the kind of detail in a system i like to see.

Now if only they would sort out this expansion pack crashing problem, then CK could really start to develope into something very interesting

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by El_Cid

erm well i put my foot in my mouth there didn't I.

I thought you were meaning back in the period of the games timeline, sorry to bring up any painful memmories lotm.

I DID mean in the games timeline. Jews were expelled from France in the 1390s, and were pushed out of German states on and off (so many different German states) from the 1200s to the 1400's, which is how they all ended up in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. It not MY memory, nor particularly painful, just its kinda a routing aspect of our history. Whereas I thought that YOU thought it was some particular aspect of my own familys history, which it is not. So no need for apologies, just clarifying what I meant.

I agree what you said in the sims thread about the dynasty aspect of CK and maybe a parrallel to the sims, obviously a very distant one games wise, but i know what you mean.

I may comment more on this as I get further into the game.

In my model the inheritid traits are less severe/dominant, this becomes a problem in CK(Total war also since medieval1) if you only have access to poorly rated kings.

This kind of thing is actualy my biggest gripe about paradox games(like EU+CK), there really are better nations to start as that really effect your chances of winning the game.

Well thats always a problem in historically accurate games. You balance that by goal setting. In EU2, if youre a tiny German state, you just want to survive. If youre Castille, and all you do is survive and end up with a handful of caribean colonies, you can hardly think of yourself as having won.

I prefer the player experience to be more based on the outcome of their in game actions, but again you can make these effects in such a system too overpowering. e.g in TW Medieval2 it was really easy to pick up bad character traits just by doing nothing(sitting in a city).

But the whole inherited genetics thing in CK is very interesting, I particularily like how your descendents will keep certain physical attributes, my Kings of wales all had huge noses for example. Its the kind of detail in a system i like to see.

Right now Im still wrestling with what to do about Robert d'Hautevilles lousy legitimate son. Ive tried changing inheritance law, to salic consanguinity, but I think Roger is going to inherit anyway. I wonder if I could have headed him off by assigning him a bishopric while he was unmarried, instead of a county. Can you make your only legit son (and principle heir) a bishop?

Now if only they would sort out this expansion pack crashing problem, then CK could really start to develope into something very interesting

I like Vicky also, and dont have Vicky:Revs yet, so I might just get that while waiting for DV to get patched.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
.......................

Right now Im still wrestling with what to do about Robert d'Hautevilles lousy legitimate son. Ive tried changing inheritance law, to salic consanguinity, but I think Roger is going to inherit anyway. I wonder if I could have headed him off by assigning him a bishopric while he was unmarried, instead of a county. Can you make your only legit son (and principle heir) a bishop?

..........

Kill him? and be careful when changing your inheritance laws, it often leads to periods of unstability as your lower ranking lords realise what it might mean for them and their families.

I changed mine to always favour the strongest child(I guess it looks at them stat wise?) - not sure what system that is called exactly now, but it triggerd a massive civil war within my kingdom. It was quite fun and I did end up with the king I wanted.

Not sure if you can make your only heir a bishop, if you can that might work, then just hope your a good 'breeder' and keep your fingers crossed for the next son.

Thanks for the info on the jewish thing - history is amazing, even if painful(the plight of the welsh for example).
I did know(it just had slipped my mind) that the jewish people have this terrible history, especialy through the middle ages when they were often used by noble families(things like you can read about in Ivan Hoe as an example of this). I guess most people(non-jewish) are more familiar with the recent nastiness of ww2.

Are you forming an overall opinion on CK yet, or is it still too early? Anyway I will be interested to here that opinion when it is ready

[Nikolai]

I changed mine to always favour the strongest child(I guess it looks at them stat wise?) - not sure what system that is called exactly now, but it triggerd a massive civil war within my kingdom. It was quite fun and I did end up with the king I wanted.

I think that is salic consanguity or something like that. Stats are only one of the things the game looks for. Land are much more important.