questions about the FPS genre

[DrSpike]

I definitely think LotM would enjoy Deus Ex.

LotM - it's less fighting, more freedom, a stronger plot (though I quite like HL) and no jumping puzzles.

[lord of the mark]

thanks for all your replies.

But I guess I wasnt so much looking for a recommendation of another FPS,as for a discussion of where HL fits into the development of the genre.

[DrSpike]

It's very important as it marks the transition from games such as Doom, Quake and Unreal, which although great for MP lacked immersion, decent stories, variety in tactical encounters and a semblance of AI.

Some games had gone before which arguably started things off - Quake 2 & Duke Nukem 3D in particular, but HL was the first to do everything well and was a real shot in the arm. The genre started to go lots of interesting places shortly after - we began to see large scale shooters (e.g Operation Flashpoint), more tactical games (Hidden and Dangerous, early Tom Clancy games), a handful of more story driven RPGish shooters (like System Shock) and interesting takes on the genre (e.g. Thief).

It's too much to ascribe a causal relationship between HL and those games - in part it was in the right place at the right time. But as I say, it marks the transition from earlier games in my mind and in many ways the birth of modern FPS games.

[Quillan]

Half Life changed the FPS genre completely. Prior to it, normally a shooter went like this: the game opened with a cinematic cutscene. When that ended, you got dropped into the world and had to move along a linear path shooting every enemy that popped up. Once you got to the end (finally), another cutscene would happen that told a little bit of story and advanced the plot somewhat. Rinse, repeat. That was basically it. Dark Forces, Quake, Unreal, Jedi Knight, Outlaws, they all followed this style. Half Life left you with the linear path, but never took you out of character. It told the story in a way that nobody else had ever been able to do.

Since then, the attraction of "non-linear" has taken hold. Unfortunately, it isn't strictly true. These games are almost always split up into levels, with one level following another in sequence, so they are linear in that regard. A few have open levels, where you can take a few or even many different routes through the level, but still you have to do level 1 before level 2 before level 3, and no backtracking is possible.

System Shock 2 and Bioshock both allow backtracking. Once you've been through an area, you can always go back to it to look for something you missed, pick up things you couldn't carry before or didn't need, or similar. Deus Ex and it's sequel let you go back and forth between areas in one region, but once you left that region you couldn't go back again. Even STALKER had a certain amount of linearity to it as some areas were impassable until events happened in game.

The only shooter I've ever seen that might be truly sandbox is Far Cry 2, based on the video that's floating around, and that's so far in the future it may well change before release. The last 2 Elder Scrolls games were really sandbox games, but some people like them (I do) and some don't.

[Solver]

Not a bad suggestion, but you could really take it even further.

A separate category altogether - tactical FPS games. Characterized mainly by realistic or near-realistic damage, weapons and environment, killing in 1-3 bullets.

Lots of story vs. little story isn't an entirely fair representation, either. Games also vary greatly in the method of storytelling. HL, for example, is lots of story with subtle storytelling. The story is not "in your face", and people who rush through the game will miss it completely. On the other hand, you have games with unavoidable sequences that are centered around the story. Like Bioshock recently.

What HL did absolutely uniquely was the storytelling. First, starting you off not with a gun and monsters but in a peaceful environment with nothing, allowing you to explore, and everything only goes to hell later. That was revolutionary and is a move that many FPS games adopted. HL also maintains its very interesting "you're Gordon Freeman" style - no cutscenes, you see only what the character sees and such.

Linearity vs. non-linearity is also more of a gradient than an on/off thing. On one end, you have fully linear games. One way to progress through the game, no changes to the storyline depending on how you play, generally just one way through each level, though with possible side areas. That's HL. On the more non-linear end, you have games like Deus Ex - multiple ways to solve puzzles and overcome obstacles, lots of optional areas, moderate changes to the story depending on your actions, characters living or dying one of the things affected by your playstyle.

Recently, I'd say games have moved towards more interesting puzzles. HL combines extremely dull and often frustrating jumping puzzles with fairly arbitrary puzzles to overcome obstacles that require you to push various buttons all over the level or somesuch. They're a bit of a holdover from Doom, and still don't make much sense. HL2, for instance, moved towards physical puzzles, and most puzzles in that game require you to do things that you would do in real life - stick something in a propeller to stop it, put weights on a seesaw, etc.

You played HL in 2007, out of context. So it's hard to really grasp how much of it was unique. As I said, the storytelling was unique. So was, for the time, a fairly complex story with conspiracies and the like, going above the "this is X vs. Y" stories. That bit where you lose all your stuff in the middle of the game was a nice surprise back then - something that has been cliched since, probably, many games do it.

I also consider HL to be the game that began modern FPS games, though games have definitely deviated quite a bit from it since.

You should probably try Deus Ex, though. As I've mentioned in the Bioshock thread, it's one of the only two FPS games (the other being HL2) I consider to be perfect.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns


Neither of which invalidates my point. Also, considering that the OP is asking for games comparable to HL (released in 1998), complaining that Deus Ex (released in 2000) is old is particularly inane.

No need to become snippy. A) He never asked for games comparable to HL. B) Deus Ex and System Shock aren't 1/2 as enjoyable now as they were 7+ years ago. Terribly aged graphics..

I hear STALKER allows a lot of freedom. Never played it though.

[Solver]

Stalker doesn't allow you that much freedom. You can roam most areas, yes, but there's not that much to do aside from the same 4 quests that repeat over and over. And you can't go to some areas until you progress far enough in the game, either.

Stalker sure does give you more freedom than most FPS games, but it isn't quite as free as they say.

[Standup]

I think Stalker is reasonably non linear but it can get get repetative if you don't get on with the story. From what I've read they scaled the AI back quite a bit to make it work so the world dynamics are a lot less that originally planned.

It does have a strong atmosphere and storyline so that to me it felt more like an RPG than a FPS. So much so that I keep expecting to level up and pick a new skill.

[Solver]

Yes, the atmosphere was brilliantly done. Lots of little touches that tie in to the book too, sort of. The AI, though, overall left me in horror.

[Skanky Burns]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
No need to become snippy. A) He never asked for games comparable to HL. B) Deus Ex and System Shock aren't 1/2 as enjoyable now as they were 7+ years ago. Terribly aged graphics..

I hear STALKER allows a lot of freedom. Never played it though.

If you kept your comments relevant, then I wouldn't need to "become snippy" as you say.

In any case, Deus Ex is from the same era as HL. There exists a mod for SS2 that updates its graphics somewhat, although there is only so far that such mods can go. Still, its worth looking into for those who enjoy well-crafted games but are unable to handle older graphics.

Both Bioshock and Stalker are on my to-do list. I will report back once I have played them... likely in a year's time.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
I hear STALKER allows a lot of freedom. Never played it though.

Compared to most FPS games yes, it has a lot more freedom

The game is a lot like an RPG in first person view, the only thing missing is the leveling up part
You don't have as much freedom as you'd wish, but it's still enough (hopefully the sequel will have more). I can't remember having seen any FPS game with more freedom, but then I haven't played that many FPS games

While some areas are "closed" from the beginning, it didn't take long before you could access it all. In one area there's a group of people who has closed the gate to the other areas, but as soon as you earned their trust they would let you through (maybe you could get through by killing them too, didn't try that). After this point you could in theory get to all areas, but that is not possible as you don't have the needed weapons/protection to get through. But at least it's not like in GTA where they had destroyed the bridges, and they wouldn't get fixed until a certain event, here you can always try if you dare


The game is fun, been played it quite a lot lately, but it does have it's drawbacks. Just to mention a few:

- Whenever you're searching an NPC body for useful stuff, you get a blinking PDA on your screen, that wont go away until you open the PDA. The blinking PDA was meant to say that you have new information, but that's RARELY the case late in the game.
- Some of the information you get when searching bodies is the location of hidden stuff (location shows up on the map). But there are WAY TOO MANY of those. The map is filled with small green circles showing where something is hidden. And they almost never go away when you have been there to get the stuff (and for some reason they sometimes gets refilled after some time)
- There's a lot of backtracking and no fast way to do it. It does take quite a long time to go from one end of the map to the other. And if you're packed with stuff you want to sell it takes even longer. There should have been a way to speed this up
- The AI is kinda stupid (e.g. yesterday I saw some Stalker go through an area with anomalies... a.k.a. instant death)
- The AI is unaffected by radiation. In one area I see lots of enemy Stalkers take cover in areas with heavy radiation (which kills after short time), but they never die... nomatter what protection they're wearing




Hmmm... and this was only mean to be a few lines reply

[Solver]

You couldn't get past the Brain Scorcher by yourself, so several areas remained off-limits. The issues of Stalker, though, don't get me started...

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Solver
You couldn't get past the Brain Scorcher by yourself, so several areas remained off-limits

I haven't gotten to that part yet, but I'm close I believe. I'm currently in the area just north of the red forest (isn't that the name... the place with tons of radiation and only a small path to walk on?). Are there still areas north of that area?

Originally posted by Solver
The issues of Stalker, though, don't get me started...

You're right, there are tons of problems, annoyances, etc in Stalker, I just listed a few that popped into my head as I wrote it. And that was only a small list... but overall I'd say it's a fun game. Hopefully the sequel will have fixed a lot of the problems

[DinoDoc]

See if you can find an abandonware copy of System Shock or even a coppy of System Shock 2 if you can find it. Those games seem like they'd be up your alley.

[Solver]

I'm currently in the area just north of the red forest (isn't that the name... the place with tons of radiation and only a small path to walk on?). Are there still areas north of that area?

Right... there's still Pripyat and Chernobyl itself, and you're not getting there unless you shut the scorcher down.