Console Wars!!!

[Asher]

To be even more specific, Winamp 5.5 BETA has Winamp Remote built in. This allows PS3 and Wii users to use the web browsers on the console to point to a webserver that connects to their computer that uses Flash to transcode all media and display them in FLV (flash video) and MP3 (audio).

So Nikolai's complaint is about bugs in Winamp 5.5 BETA's flash encoding. Not console capabilities.

FWIW, you'd have to be pretty retarded to use that kind of remote media software for the PS3. It supports real media server protocols with nice interfaces and integration. It's not a simple Flash webpage.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Asher
FWIW, streaming to the Wii is far more difficult than the 360/PS3 because it was never intended for it to work -- it's a hack that usually revolves around your PC acting as a "webserver" that the Wii uses the internet browser to connect to and stream content transcoded into Flash in realtime. It's terrible.

So on the Wii "it was never intended for it to work". And although you can get it to work the result is "terrible" (even for an expert who knows how to configure the software), implying some difference in quality.

Sounds like a difference in hardware from what you have posted. Which means it's not just a software issue. If true that is given that you aren't always totally fair when discussing the Wii. Which is a further reason to keep it here where we can keep an eye on you.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DrSpike
So on the Wii "it was never intended for it to work". And although you can get it to work the result is "terrible" (even for an expert who knows how to configure the software), implying some difference in quality.

Sounds like a difference in hardware from what you have posted. Which means it's not just a software issue. If true that is given that you aren't always totally fair when discussing the Wii. Which is a further reason to keep it here where we can keep an eye on you.

Why are you having such a hard time with this?

THIS IS A SOFTWARE ISSUE.

This is a bug with Winamp 5.5 BETA.

THIS IS A SOFTWARE ISSUE WITH WINAMP 5.5 BETA. Winamp 5.5 beta, in fact, has NOTHING to do with the PS3's media server capabilities, because all it is is a Flash webpage that you can navigate to with the PS3 webbrowser. Even then, it's broken due to a bug in Winamp 5.5 beta.

And your attempt to say something about me simply not liking the Wii is ridiculous. I don't like the PS3 either, but here I am...

[DrSpike]

I think you are fixating on the stuff posted on Winamp to get away from the fact you yourself posted about hardware differences amongst the consoles that would be valid to discuss here.

[Asher]

Originally posted by DrSpike
I think you are fixating on the stuff posted on Winamp to get away from the fact you yourself posted about hardware differences amongst the consoles that would be valid to discuss here.

I think you are fixating on a rather obvious point that is not even contested. The Wii's CPU is pathetically slow compared to the 360 and PS3's. It cannot decode intense codecs such as MPEG-4, h264, and VC-1. I will happily discuss why the Wii's CPU is pathetic, but this is not related to Nikolai's discussion in the slightest.

Do you get it? It's 100% unrelated to a bug in Winamp 5.5 beta.

But, if you want to discuss the hardware differences that make the Wii pathetic, I'd be happy to do that as well. But it's unrelated to the Winamp bug Nikolai discussed.

[Kuciwalker]

Asher is correct here.

[DrSpike]

So you accept that differences in hardware capabilities that affect the ability to stream media files effectively in practice is a relevant discussion for this thread.

Originally posted by Nikolai
No, it's all about the consoles' abilities.

Originally posted by DrSpike
I agree this is a valid issue for this thread.

Where we started.

[Asher]

Are you serious?

The issue wasn't console ability, it was a bug in Winamp. Did you not understand anything that was just said?

On an unrelated note, yes, the Wii is very slow and can't decode advanced codecs. This is not what Nikolai discussed in the slightest, and he was wrong to suggest it was. I took issue with that, you ignored it, and now YOU are back where we started while the rest of the world has clued in and moved on. Eventually, you will get there -- don't give up hope.

PC software bugs are not the same as console ability. Very simple concept.

[DrSpike]

Unlike some I am secure in my own skills to admit I have learnt something from this exchange about streaming media.

However, you do seem to be under the misapprehension that I am making points about winamp. My first post tonight was to suggest that the capabilities of the various consoles is a valid topic for discussion here. You initially objected.

I've posted this view over and over (using no more than the info you've provided actually) and you are just responding with your points about winamp which no one has disputed that I can see since your initial exchange with Nikolai.

I'm afraid I still think that the inherent capabilities of the machines is a valid topic for discussion here.

[Asher]

Yes, they are. But that was not what Nikolai was discussing, nor what you were defending as relevant. He discussed a bug, you considered it relevant, and I dismissed that as nonsense.

Yes, there are huge media capability differences in the console, and that's because the Wii has zero media capabilities. Any and all media on the console is hacked in via webpages.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Asher
Yes, they are. But that was not what Nikolai was discussing, nor what you were defending as relevant. He discussed a bug, you considered it relevant, and I dismissed that as nonsense.

If I was disputing your arguments about winamp I would have quoted more of Nikolai's posts, or yours. The only part I quoted when entering this debate was around the capabilities of the machines. Perhaps that was confusing because of the context it came from but all of my posts after that have hinged in some way on trying to understand what the relative capabilities are so it should be clear.

I think you just missed that in your zest to prove your e-peen was bigger. Still, I don't think it's a problem though - you seem a smart chap and over the next few years I'd expect you to develop your ability to work with people to understand where they are coming from and pitch your responses appropriately. This is particularly important in customer focused environment such as yours where you will often be better informed than your clients.

[Asher]

DrSpike, you're being utterly ridiculous. You replied to Nikolai's post, which was about a bug in Winamp.

You may have subconsciously pretended the subject was different. But it was not.

The subject was Nikolai's experience with Winamp 5.5 on the Wii and PS3. It was not a general "compare and contrast console capabilities" argument, especially because it should now be obvious that only you thought it was. At this point you should admit the mistake was yours -- you misunderstood the discussion going on and pretended it was about something else.

Not to mention the fact that the Wii doesn't have media capabilities is rather extensively documented...such a discussion would be pointless.

[DrSpike]

Come on, you posted this right at the start:

Originally posted by Asher
Again, I would be happy to discuss media streaming capabilities of consumer electronics.

But this is not appropriate for:
1) A thread on the console wars
2) A thread in the "Other Games" forum

I disputed it then and I dispute it now. The media streaming capabilities of consumer electronics are appropriate for this thread. Your later posts seem to indicate you agree.........

[Asher]

Oh, we're talking about that now. Convenient for you. The whole time I am discussing Nikolai's post. You forgot to include the last paragraph in that quote, which makes my context quite clear. Shame on you.

So I will reiterate: any issues Nikolai had with a beta Winamp media server is not relevant to the console wars, nor the consoles themselves.

We can discuss it here if you wish, but something tells me you don't have anything to discuss and you're trying to save some face.

Tell me, DrSpike, what did you need to know about the Wii? Does it play Bluray or HD DVD?

I still don't think it's appropriate to discuss it here, and would prefer it be discussed in the Technology forum along with threads on TVs, DVD players, and home theatre PCs. It doesn't really belong in Other Games.

But if you want to ask some stupid questions, go ahead and I'll tell you how much the wii sucks.

It's one thing to discuss "inherent capabilities" of the machines (eg, why is the Wii's CPU so weak?) but it's another thing to discuss how media streaming works to the consoles. The former belongs here, the latter belongs in the tech forum next to the threads on TVs and DVD players and HTPCs.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Asher
Oh, we're talking about that now. Convenient for you.

I will leave it as an exercise for the reader whether or not I have consistently been discussing the practical capabilities of the consoles.

I think the story of the recent thread as I see it is this:

1) Nikolai posts about his experiences of streaming media on the Wii

2) You point out his mistake without really being that helpful to expedite matters.

3) In the course of the inevitable argument you post lots of very useful info, but broaden your argument (which was initially correct) to an overstated one one you now admit was incorrect.

Originally posted by Asher
Again, I would be happy to discuss media streaming capabilities of consumer electronics.

But this is not appropriate for:
1) A thread on the console wars
2) A thread in the "Other Games" forum

4) I point out the inconsistency with your own posts (since this is an area I have pretty much zero of my own knowledge to contribute)

5) You return to the initial argument which you 'won' before (rather begrudgingly) admitting I was right and we should discuss capabilities here.

I'm sure I will learn something if we can do that in a civilised fashion, with limited use of hyperbole (you really need to watch that )