Help UnO pick a console.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Asher

If the air inside or through your windows is unhealthy (or otherwise unfresh), then you have bigger problems.Connection with nature and the real world? These are kids we're talking about. Connection with nature for me meant building tree forts in the hilly wilderness out back. Got lots of nasty infections and injuries, got hospitalized for a bit once.

Im very sorry for your traumatic interactions with the outdoors.

Exercise? We rode bikes all the time -- was real fun until one of my friends got hit by a car.

Ive taught my kids about cycling safely.

I'm not saying never let your kids go outside, most kids will want to anyway. The point is there's tons of time for both. You can't always "go outside and play" (ever heard of winter?), some neighbourhoods aren't the best for that either.

Oh sorry, I forgot youre up there the frozen north. Its quite possible to play outside here in the winter - in fact thats one of the best times.

In any case there are plenty of places here where the houses have huge lawns, where the kids are hardly ever outside, even on beautiful days. If you think some of that isnt cause the kids are playing video games, youre not living in the real world.

And I didnt suggest kids ONLY play outside. Theres all kinds of non-electronic playing with friends inside, theres board games, theres reading for pleasure, and theres art. Oh, and chemistry sets, pets, models, and about a hundred other wonderful aspects of childhood.

The simple point is, video games do not replace being outside. I'm annoyed that you bring your high-and-mighty opinion, but to be honest, because it was not solicited, nor was it particularly informed. It's something that is becoming typical of you though, extremely conservative opinion about just about any opinion under the sun. It's very important kids don't have fun outside of your predefined areas of fun-ness, isn't it.

There are about a thousand fun things other than video games.

If Uno wants his kids to play video games, thats his business. But I simply gave my opinion.

Don't be a douche -- by games I clearly meant video games.

The equation of games with video games is worth challenging.

I am having difficulty. He's asking which console to get and you're telling him to let his kids play outside instead. That's not a console.

I told him to buy a 360. Is that not a console?

I'm absolutely certain you dramatically restrict your child's use of your PC. Am I right?

Given that shes in a VERY challenging high school, and is taking an advanced math class, and Japanese, and has other demands on her time, of course we do. We also restrict her time doing art, and, sadly, playing outside. We've asked her if she wants to go to a different school, but she insists she likes the school and wants to stay there. If you want to know why, ask Kuci here.

However when she has free, time we certainly let her use her PC = afterall we bought her a laptop. When shes using it for pleasure she uses it to email or IM her friends, or to play music, or to search websites about art. She has almost zero interest in games, The Sims excepted. I certainly intend to buy her that, though she needs to get a bit more caught up in her homework first.

She has been to friends houses where she wants to talk with her friends, and finds the kids are constantly being distracted by the computer (the console seems to be a male only thing at this age - in the past though some girls were distracted by the console as well) she finds it frustrating, and has complained to us about the other kids electronic addictions.

At her birthday party, we had NO electronics on. No TV, no movies, no video games. The kids had a fantastic time, and all wanted to come back soon.

Tipski: In the future, do not offer unsolicited advice on how to raise one's children. He asked what console to get, not how to entertain his kids. They are very different questions.

I made a suggestion about what console to buy, and gave my reasons.

You on the other hand, give me unsolicited life style advice when Im only asking for info on TV's.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Ive taught my kids about cycling safely.

Oh, that makes them invincible.

Oh sorry, I forgot youre up there the frozen north. Its quite possible to play outside here in the winter - in fact thats one of the best times.

In any case there are plenty of places here where the houses have huge lawns, where the kids are hardly ever outside, even on beautiful days. If you think some of that isnt cause the kids are playing video games, youre not living in the real world.

There's only so much fun you can have on grass. Just because you had to get by (and did get by with it) doesn't mean it's the best approach.

Really, why is playing board games superior to playing, say, Guitar Hero with friends? Why is reading better than playing, say, Oblivion?

And I didnt suggest kids ONLY play outside. Theres all kinds of non-electronic playing with friends inside, theres board games, theres reading for pleasure, and theres art. Oh, and chemistry sets, pets, models, and about a hundred other wonderful aspects of childhood.

Damn those video games! Back in my day, we _______________!

I'm damn good. I called that crotchety old man card before you even whipped it out.

There are about a thousand fun things other than video games.

If Uno wants his kids to play video games, thats his business. But I simply gave my opinion.

Yes, you did. It was not surprising, and it's a rather shallow opinion. I simply gave my opinion on your backwards opinion.

The equation of games with video games is worth challenging.

No, it's not -- because it's clear what was meant by the context. You were being a douche.

I told him to buy a 360. Is that not a console?

You told him to buy a 360 so they wouldn't play it much, in your logic. It was facetious.

Given that shes in a VERY challenging high school, and is taking an advanced math class, and Japanese, and has other demands on her time, of course we do. We also restrict her time doing art, and, sadly, playing outside. We've asked her if she wants to go to a different school, but she insists she likes the school and wants to stay there. If you want to know why, ask Kuci here.

Yeah, good on you. I pegged you as the control freak.

I suggest you do some reading on child psychology. Kids raised by control freak parents do some crazy, crazy stuff when college rolls around...

At her birthday party, we had NO electronics on. No TV, no movies, no video games. The kids had a fantastic time, and all wanted to come back soon.

!!

"I had a great time, Mr. Horowitz! Thanks for having us over!"

Are you so naive?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
Let's put it this way: you don't go on Xbox Live to find a mature discussion.

Ya don't come to this thread either, apparantly.

[DrSpike]

[Kloreep]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx
I don't play FPS at all, frankly. But I much prefer Madden on a console over the PC. And the aforementioned RPG games I like on consoles, since PC's only seem to be getting MMORPG's these days, which are nothing but a time sink.

By "RPGs" do you mean Final Fantasy, or the others? That seems to be shaping up somewhat as the 360 vs. PS3 split, as PS3 still has FF, but 360 has Mass Effect and Blue Dragon already. Really, the 360 has the best game selection IMO and would probably be my recommendation for you alone - though if you absolute eschew shooters the 360 doesn't look quite as good, since I include games like Gears of War and Bioshock in that statement.

My recommendation for your kids alone would probably be the Wii at the moment, though the 360 has a few offerings too like Viva Piñata.

So, it's tough to recommend one console. The only thing I can say is that unless you gotta have Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy, the PS3 is not looking too great at the moment. Especially if you already have a PS2 and thus don't need the backwards compatibility. (BTW, if you don't have a Gamecube, the Wii's complete backwards compatility is a pretty good selling point IMO. It didn't have a ton of exclusives, but some were very good.)

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Asher
Sarcasm?

The PC is anti-social in terms of gaming, unless you get him playing MMORPGs.

And I don't think telling kids to go outside all the time is very smart either. It's very old-school.

Go out and play in the street! Don't listen to that rock music! And stay away from them video games!! You should be out using your imagination! Go play doctor or something! Go play cops and robbers or cowbows and indians!

^ this is why gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
^ this is why gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt kids.

Because I don't believe forcing kids outside to play all the time is the right thing to do?

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx


Ya don't come to this thread either, apparantly.

[Wiglaf]

LoTM:

Don't you always come here posting about baulder's gate or EU2 or Simcity or whatever?

Old people can go outside too you know

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Asher

Oh, that makes them invincible.

its impossible to live a risk free life. If you think kids should never bike because of that, perhaps its just as well you have no kids.

There's only so much fun you can have on grass. Just because you had to get by (and did get by with it) doesn't mean it's the best approach.

Actually I grew up with asphalt, and never did run out of fun.

Really, why is playing board games superior to playing, say, Guitar Hero with friends?

Guitar Hero (and DDR) may be an exception. Most console games, even when kids are all in a room playing together, they are staring at the screen, not looking at each other, not making eye contact. Maybe thats an ok form of social interaction, but I wouldnt want kids to miss out on the more "traditional" ways of being with people. You know, looking them in the face.

Also learning to take turns, play by the rules, etc are valuable social skills.

Why is reading better than playing, say, Oblivion?

The value of reading for pleasure is way to big an issue for here. We shall have to agree to disagree. Uno, if you share Ashers opinion on the value of reading for pleasure, thats one strike against my argument, I admit.

You told him to buy a 360 so they wouldn't play it much, in your logic. It was facetious.

If it was facetious, why are you so worked up about it. Anyway, its a logical argument. If HE wants to play games (which he said he did) and the games HE wants to play are more available on the 360 then the Wii, or play better (and since he mentioned Madden, I take it they ARE) then if he decides that his preschoolers are not going play much or any console games, that would be a very logical argument for the 360.

Yeah, good on you. I pegged you as the control freak.

How so? POTM sometimes has ASKED us to remove the laptop from her room when she has homework to do.

Have you ever parented a gifted but ADD kid struggling through a challenging academic program? If not, how the hell would you know what its like.

BTW, Ive suggested that I would take POTM to help pick out a TV, and you said I shouldnt, and I'm the control freak?

I suggest you do some reading on child psychology. Kids raised by control freak parents do some crazy, crazy stuff when college rolls around...

QOTM reads enough child psychology for both of us. Its filled with how important it is for kids to play outside, read for pleasure, etc, etc.

I am of course not a control freak parent at all, and POTM would be first to say so.

For ex, I dont forbid her from riding her bicycle, as you would have me do.

I know some kids raised by control freak parents. They spent hours on video games every day, cause it safer than venturing out of doors, apparently. They are already in full rebel mode.

POTM the other day participated in a day of silence for those "who are forced to be silent about their sexuality" I was proud that she'd absorbed our values of social justice, even as I smiled at how differently this was expressed than in my day.

"I had a great time, Mr. Horowitz! Thanks for having us over!"

Are you so naive?

When the kids are resisting the parents whove come to pick them up, I tend to think theyre sincere.


But again, you should know better than me, since you're 3000 miles away from the incident, and I was there, you know. Actual physical presence being something for us fogies, who still are having trouble getting our arms around how one can be a know it all about someone elses life based on a couple of internet posts.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by UnOrthOdOx


Ya don't come to this thread either, apparantly.

If my advice is unhelpful I will stop. Its up to you, as you asked the original question.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
LoTM:

Don't you always come here posting about baulder's gate or EU2 or Simcity or whatever?

Old people can go outside too you know

I sure do like to go outside, and do lots of things other than gaming.

If I didnt, id have made it much farther, faster, through all those games than I have.

But Im grown, and whatever I do, isnt effecting my development as it would a preteen. I was quite specific in my choice of words, as I believe whats appropriate for a teen is different from what is for a preteen, which in turn is different from whats appropriate for a preschooler, etc.

BTW, Simcity is a GREAT game for a preteen whos intellectually ready. Its nonviolent (mainly) can be creative, and can be fairly educational. EU2, though much more violent, is also quite educational.

BG2, well, meh. Let me play PnP Dnd.

[Kuciwalker]

Simcity is a great game, period. I played it when I was 4.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Kloreep


By "RPGs" do you mean Final Fantasy, or the others? That seems to be shaping up somewhat as the 360 vs. PS3 split, as PS3 still has FF, but 360 has Mass Effect and Blue Dragon already. Really, the 360 has the best game selection IMO and would probably be my recommendation for you alone - though if you absolute eschew shooters the 360 doesn't look quite as good, since I include games like Gears of War and Bioshock in that statement.

In the past, FF has been a 'must have'. I do like pretty much whatever Square puts out, typically. But, I'm considering whether it's all that important to me anymore or not. And Square's porting FFXI to the xbox, and some other things to Nintendo as well, so how much longer is PS having the exlusives there? Especially with the PS3 not selling all that great.

As for Shooters, I do love "Mercenaries" and Mercs2 is coming to every system, so I'm not too worried about it. If Gears of War or Bioshock are similar, I would at least rent them.

My recommendation for your kids alone would probably be the Wii at the moment, though the 360 has a few offerings too like Viva Piñata.

So, it's tough to recommend one console. The only thing I can say is that unless you gotta have Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy, the PS3 is not looking too great at the moment. Especially if you already have a PS2 and thus don't need the backwards compatibility. (BTW, if you don't have a Gamecube, the Wii's complete backwards compatility is a pretty good selling point IMO. It didn't have a ton of exclusives, but some were very good.)

yeah, there's a lot of nintendo games we've missed we could get, and hEt (wife) would like all the old stuff you can download. I just have a hard time with Nintendo. Historically, they make really good games, but 3rd parties don't support their system all that great. And as for the remote thing, it would be fair to call me gunshy from that powerglove that's in a box in the basement somewhere. Spent my own money buying that hunk of trash back when I was about 10 or so.

[Asher]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Actually I grew up with asphalt, and never did run out of fun.

Judging by your dull demeanor and obsession with mind-numbingly boring jewish history, I call your bluff.

Guitar Hero (and DDR) may be an exception. Most console games, even when kids are all in a room playing together, they are staring at the screen, not looking at each other, not making eye contact. Maybe thats an ok form of social interaction, but I wouldnt want kids to miss out on the more "traditional" ways of being with people. You know, looking them in the face.

Yes, it's a clear fact that when a child plays video games, they are incapable of looking people in the face and having conversations after.

If it was facetious, why are you so worked up about it.

I'm not. You'll see I ignored your recommendation, and instead I'm getting in your face about your boorish and pushy ways to raise boring children with boring lives.

How so? POTM sometimes has ASKED us to remove the laptop from her room when she has homework to do.

So she has willpower issues? More video games would do her good.

BTW, Ive suggested that I would take POTM to help pick out a TV, and you said I shouldnt, and I'm the control freak?

You shouldn't take women with you buying electronics. Everyone knows this. They're too frugal with the important stuff.

It's important for men to stand up for themselves and their desires, which is not the same as being a control freak.

For ex, I dont forbid her from riding her bicycle, as you would have me do.

I've never said that. In fact, I've said explicitly I'm not saying to never let kids play outside, etc.

I know some kids raised by control freak parents. They spent hours on video games every day, cause it safer than venturing out of doors, apparently. They are already in full rebel mode.

If the kids had control freak parents, why are they playing video games? They ought to be studying and reading and learning Hebrew, god damnit!

When the kids are resisting the parents whove come to pick them up, I tend to think theyre sincere.

If I had similarly control freak parents as I'm sure they do, I'd resist too.

But again, you should know better than me, since you're 3000 miles away from the incident, and I was there, you know. Actual physical presence being something for us fogies, who still are having trouble getting our arms around how one can be a know it all about someone elses life based on a couple of internet posts.

So what you're saying is perhaps you shouldn't be giving advice about parenting to someone you don't know on the internet?

Hey, you know what? I agree. That's the whole point.