What is the appeal of The Sims?

[EternalSpark]

This might get a bit philosophical, but I would argue that a lot of the hate and/or the "How is that fun?" is based less on the game itself, and more on what the game represents.

Think about it. You're a gamer that likes challenging games in which you have to practice, study, and understand the core concepts to get a clearly-defined goal. You read FAQs to understand the higher concepts of the game, allowing you to get 1.5 Units of Something in 2 minutes instead of 1.2 Units of Something in 4 minutes.

Then this game, The Sims, comes out. Not only is it a game that is pretty much the opposite of what you're a fan of - it's open ended, the scope is extremely small, and anyone can play it - but it sells. And every expansion pack is released, and every part of you thinks everyone will ignore it - but it sells too!

The more developers look at people who plays those kind of games, the less they pay attention to you.

The appeal of the Sims? This thread is loaded with 'em. The problem is that most people who said them see them as problems.

Personally, I like The Sims. It's fun to play a game where the intended outcome is creation, rather than destruction.

[DaShi]

Good point Spark.

THE SIMS IS OUT TO DESTROY THE GAMES WE LOVE!!! WE MUST STOP IT NOW!!!!!!

[Skanky Burns]

Its several million shipped units too late for that.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Cause I dont see wanting to play sandbox as having anything to do with "wanting no risk of failure"

Look, to take a title that draws less emotion, at say Roller Coaster Tycoon. The first was criticized precisely cause it didnt have sandbox mode, and later versions had it. Now Im a gamer whos quite comfortable with losing (as my persistence with CK the last two days is just one more example) but I also saw the need for a sandbox mode. Yeah, it can be fun trying to get a park of a certain size before some arbitrary time limit. But part of whats cool about a game like that is just being able to design coasters. And really, what does wining or losing have to do with designing coasters?

Im willing to bet that most of the sandbox mode people, who want the Sims just to fool around with furnishing a virtual doll house, are quite comfortable with winning and losing games, and have probably played card games, maybe even board games. They MIGHT even play a winning-losing PC or other video game if someone designed one that drew them. They just are happy playing their furnishing TOY without it.

And of course that minority who DO want a challenge (which includes both folks who play other games, and people like POTM who DONT) can also have that.

Its like a rubber ball. Does it have challenge, or not? Well it all depends on what you do with it. Thats the nature of a toy, you can make it the heart of a game, or you can just play with it. Thats Will Wrights insight.

[EternalSpark]

I'm sure this has been discussed in Sims-related threads before this one, but how many wildly-successful game franchises has DrSpike created?

[Kuciwalker]

Three.

[El_Cid]

Pee + poo jokes are as old as human history, it's true it often seems to be the preserve of the younger male, and even though the Sims has gone on to become one of the biggest female selling games, it's true you can see it was designed by men.

In fact it's this part of the game and the hot-tob stuff that makes my gf most uncomfortable - she's much more interested in trying to build a successful(and nice) home+job, the puerile humour in the game is the least interesting bit for her.

Sims is neither evil or good. If anything i'd class it as an experimental game, one day just as little computer people led to the Sims, the sims will lead to incredibly complex social games where you rally can live another life, the on-line world has already started this process.

Personaly i'm not interested in it, but I can't bring myself to condem it just yet - it IS interesting to watch how it developes(the experiment of complex social modeling in games).

Oh and the Sims has probably stopped total game domination by consoles over recent years - for that I will always remain thankfull to it, even if I'm not into the game myself.

The day the PC really dies as a gaming platform, will be the day gaming dies.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by EternalSpark
I'm sure this has been discussed in Sims-related threads before this one, but how many wildly-successful game franchises has DrSpike created?

Douchery at its finest.

How's life in "Vvardenfell"

[lord of the mark]

at Spikey

yeah, when I reread my penultimate paragraph, I thought of that cartoon. I went ahead anyway.

Cause when I last saw that cartoon I hadnt actually played the Sims. Id played Simcity alot, but from one game with its idiosyncrasies its hard to generalize.

Having played both Simcity and the Sims (which are, of course, very different in many respects) I do see something parallel running through them. Im kinda getting the Will Wright philosophy more. Im not gonna talk about Spore more right now - I think it will be delicious if thats the game that finally forces me to leave integrated graphics behind though

El Cid - I too think of the Sims as a first real effort on a new genre, and will overlook some problems on that account. Unfortunately the only commercially succesful direct follow up Im aware of is the Sims 2 - which apparently is close to the original, though presumably aspirations and aging do have an impact on ones ability to win by simply taking a lot of time. Id love to see someone competing against Wright directly in the genre, but this franchises strength, and the continued weakness of the PC platform (could a competitor emerge on console?), has limited that.

I will say, that it is fascinating to play Crusader Kings right after playing and discussing the Sims. I dont know if Paradox was thinking of the Sims when they did their design - you could also see the dynasty management as a natural outgrowth of certain aspects of their earlier games.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by EternalSpark
I'm sure this has been discussed in Sims-related threads before this one, but how many wildly-successful game franchises has DrSpike created?

doc is an experienced game player, and someone whos thought seriously (as well as facetiously) about games. His comments here contribute lots of information, and hes also unfailingly polite, and livens the place up with humor as well.

Even the most net positive people make a mistake now and then, and theyre entitled to them

[Wiglaf]

yeah, when I reread my penultimate paragraph, I thought of that cartoon. I went ahead anyway.

Penultimate means second to last.

Having played both Simcity and the Sims (which are, of course, very different in many respects) I do see something parallel running through them. Im kinda getting the Will Wright philosophy more.

Simcity >>>> The Sims.

[Harovan]

Spore will be >>>>>>>>>>> everything else! Remember guys, it'll have Soren Johnsons pee in it!

Maybe Blake will make "A better Spore AI" too!

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Wiglaf

Penultimate means second to last.

Correct. My penultimate paragraph was about a rubber ball, my final paragraph was about McNamara. It was the penultimate paragraph, and NOT the final one, that made me think of the Pee cartoon.

Simcity >>>> The Sims.

I tend to agree.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by EternalSpark
I'm sure this has been discussed in Sims-related threads before this one, but how many wildly-successful game franchises has DrSpike created?

How many oscar winning films have you directed? Are there any films you have an opinion of?

How many Booker prize winning novels have you penned? Is there perhaps a childhood novel you recall favourably?

Please come back when you have a sensible argument.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Three.

4 if you count Civ - Sid stole the idea from a game I wrote in BASIC in 1989. True story dat.