List the greatest game ever created: by genre

[Imran Siddiqui]

We'll trust Kuci over sites that have reviewed far more games than Kuci has ever played .

[Kuciwalker]

You could say the same about any of the people here, and I'd trust many of them over ign.

[El_Cid]

Originally posted by duke o' york
Best strategy-related forum bickering: This thread.

QFT

[lord of the mark]

Young Luke here is right, IS is wrong.

I mean if you want to get technical, you could just call EU2, AOK, etc sims. I mean they simulate something, right? Maybe not perfectly accurately, but then, say Caesar3 isnt accurate either. And in some stores you will see a section of "military sims" that is defined just like that.

The point of genres is to help guide comparisons, help people think about markets, etc.

When RTS was invented, it was pretty clear that this was something different from the earlier strat games, many of which were board war games translated to computers, or were inspired by them. At the time the distinction noted was that they were in RT, and the name stuck. By now, though, strat gaming has evolved to the point that we can see that the TB vs RT distinction is less important to defining the game.

If someone says theyve just played EU2 or Victoria, and want to try something related thats not by paradox, I think most of us would be more inclined to look at games like Civ, SMAC, trad wargames, rather than most "RTS" games.

So meaningfully, Id say, there are 'strategy games" and then theres "RTS". The latter not only playing in RT, but incorporating other things that define the RT genre. You could call EU2 a hybrid, but I dont think thats really useful. Its not an RTS with TB features, its not a TBS with RTS features, its a STRATEGY game, that involves issues that are more commonly addressed by TB games than RT games, and that happens to play in RT - or you might say, its a wego TB games, but the computer automatically presses the next turn button for you, unless you pause with every tick of the calendar.

Why did the pubs call it RTS? Well they had to call it something, I guess, for the more anal types among the retailers, and other parts of the market. And they couldnt call it TBS, and presumably those anal types wouldnt have accepted just "strategy"

I havent played Xcom, or most of the RPGs that are mentioned, so i cant say how this applies to them.

I do know, that if we all had a dollar for every time weve suggested the Paradox games, to someone, and they said "I dont really like RTS" and we explained that they are not really RTS, wed all have a lot more dollars. To me thats the crux of it. If someone says they dont like TBS games, do you find yourself recommending XCom anyway? If they say they dont like RPGs do you recommend these other games anyway?


From Gaming World

"Gaming Reviews: Hit or Miss
By Rowain

Europa Universalis II
By Paradox Entertainment, for the PC


Before I begin this review, there is one point I need to make.

If you dislike hardcore strategy games, then just stop reading now, because chances are EUII isn’t the right game for you. The entire game is based around managing a nation from 1419 up to 1819, and I can tell you – it isn’t exactly easy.

So, if you’re still reading, let me begin.

As I said before, EUII is all about managing a nation from the late medieval year of 1419 up to the age of liberalism, and the end of the Napoleonic Wars (the exact end of the game is Jan 1st, 1820.) This idea may sound unappealing because many RTS games have done things similar. But Europa Universalis II is NOT a RTS in the common sense of the word. Yes, it is real time, and yes, it is about strategy, but the underlying factors that affect the game play take the game beyond this."

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui In fact in turn based, EU and EU2 doesn't work. It becomes long, tedious, and not fun.

Civ2, ive had times when it was "click-click-click", etc. Long tedious and not fun.

No ones saying that giving up the opportunity to have the PC click for you through all the one day turns (and its complicated by the fact that in EU2 most of everything other than combat would do almost as well with monthly turns, not daily) is what we would want. Its a nice feature. But it doesnt capture the essence of the game, or show what games compare to it.

[DrSpike]

Originally posted by DrSpike
I think what everyone has to realise is that the genre classifications, like all such classifications, are just a tool to lend structure to what would otherwise be an even more chaotic debate. There are always cases that fit clearly within their genre, and cases where the boundaries are fuzzy.

In this particular case it is hard to argue with the point that EU is a strategy game played in real time and therefore RTS. Nevertheless Kuci's point that there is a clear distinction between it and the genre started by Dune2 and popularised by C&C is of course a fair one.

When Dune2 came out there was only a need to distinguish from the TB games that were the staple of the day (though there were some exception even then). The problem is that EU2 and its ilk which came later never developed its own classification in common useage despite being clearly different. Some like "grand strategy" though, which is a great deal better in my view than RTS.

Now look how much time you can have both saved if you had just said "I agree with DrSpike's fine post".

[Nubclear]

Well for one you can pause the game and execute all of your orders before resuming, and in SP this is in fact the norm (at least, that's how I play). That's completely different from a clickfest RTS.

I don't believe I asked if you could pause it. I also don't believe I asked about its similarity to a clickfest RTS. I believe I asked for someone to point out the "Process Turn" button in EU2 Preferably by screenshot.

Yes, it is real time, and yes, it is about strategy,

Thank you.

It's "real-time" "strategy",

Thank you.

[RGBVideo]

grand strategy is a subgenre of real-time strategy...

Civ2, ive had times when it was "click-click-click", etc. Long tedious and not fun.

try civ4

Seriously. Best civ so far. It got rid of the "as game progresses, your empire grows and grows and the gamespeed stagnates to halt by industrial era" -problem you're probably thinking of.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by VJ
grand strategy is a subgenre of real-time strategy...


try civ4

Seriously. Best civ so far. It got rid of the "as game progresses, your empire grows and grows and the gamespeed stagnates to halt by industrial era" -problem you're probably thinking of.

whatever. I still dont see the point. EU2 works better as a continuous time game than as turn based. So? Some games work better in 2d than 3d - does that make 2d a genre? Is 4x (which both Civ, and most RTS games are) a genre? Its pretty arbitrary, if you ask me. What matters is what gives you a sense of the feel of the game, and what other games its most like (as both Spikey and I have said) EU2, Vicky,etc feel more like the Civ2 experience (with one more month of cont time subbing for one more turn) than they do like AOK or Starcraft. I havent played RON and cant answer for that.

Heck, if you want to get all anal about words, Vickie and EU2 AND AOK and RON are not real time. Flight sims are real time, driving games can be real time, FPS can be real time, but for Vickie to be real time would be extremely tedious. The game came out in 2002 - even if id started playing the Grand Campaign then, id still only be up to 1840 now. Thats what REAL TIME actually means.

And a game like AOK isnt even 'real time' in a narrower sense. you can build a barracks or a mill in the time it takes a horseman to go around a lake? WTF? Vicky is much more of "real time" game than AOE in that sense.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Some like "grand strategy" though, which is a great deal better in my view than RTS.

Why would Civ not be in that classification instead of TBS then? What about MOO? They are far more of 'grand strategy' games than EU.

FWIW, I dont quite agree with Kucis classification. I would tend to a group the Paradox type games with the TBS games in a general category called "Strategy". "RTS" games would have their own category.

You could have a narrower category of historical grand strategy games, that would be more analagous to the historical war games category.

[El_Cid]

Learning how to be a parent game(if you lived in a magical land): Princess Maker 2.

[bipolarbear]

Progenitor of Parental Hysterics- GTA: San Andreas
People Simulation- The Sims 2 honorable mention a doll
FPS- HL2 honorable mention Goldeneye
Action/Platform Psychonauts
letdown Fable